Mesaba/Colgan guys, some 9E news

[Smarta$$]

Right on CptMurf. I am not sure why the Pinnacle pilots feel so strongly about screwing Mesaba pilots. I am sure someone will reply that it isn't our choice they are going to use the LOA. Have you contacted your rep about how you don't want it used? Have you spent any energy trying to get the integrated seniority list so everyone is integrated fairly? I know you can say that the ones that are talking smack are in the minority, but I have only seen those that talk smack. I can honestly say I have not had a positve experience talking with ANY Pinnacle pilot EVER, other than the one that I knew from flight school. It's always about how you are going to get screwed...LOA this, LOA that. STFU and get something useful done by saying you want a fair integration. Not a single time have I ever heard a Mesaba pilot talk about how we should get better treatment for anything in this process. Fair integration. That's all I have ever heard coming out of Mesaba pilots.

Oh, this is obviously a general statement and not directed at CptMurf. I completely agree with what he says.

I never mentioned the LOA or anything even remotely close to it there Nancy.

 

[bri5150]

Actually, in 2 out of 3 cases, it was definitely their attitude that was a factor. I did also notice serious proficiency shortfalls as well, but I would cut them slack if their attitude was good.

As far as having respect, 2 out of 3 were young, arrogant punks, exhibiting an attitude I will NOT respect.

I didn't specify that in my post, so I will let your remarks roll off.

Okay, obviously I don't know the situation, so I am going to make some sweeping generalizations. Seeing as you are at Pinnacle, I would assume you have never been furloughed. So, put yourself in their position. Let's say you spent 6 months at the very bottom of the Pinnacle seniority list. Then they furlough you. After that, it is announced that the airline you were conditioned to hate bought Pinnacle. You get offered a job at said hated airline, so you take it because it's better than not working. Now, you go through the training department (which I believe is common knowledge not that good), and you get to commute to the bottom of the list again. So, about 1.5 years of your life has been at the bottom of a list, commuting, and furloughed. Cut the guys some slack. If they are truly just young punks, then I take this all back, because I too can't stand that. If they are a bit disillusioned with what is going on, take it easy.

 

[bri5150]

I never mentioned the LOA or anything even remotely close to it there Nancy.

And I never mentioned you, or anything even close to it there Nancy.

 

[bri5150]

I have flown with 3 former Mesaba pilots in the last month, and I am NOT impressed.

.

Haven't said anything bad about Mesaba pilots?

 

[DoinTime]

If it's such a piece of crap, why try and use it now? My point is that Express pilots were not "entitled" jobs at Mesaba. From what I know, that was a courtesy more than anything, not something that needed to be done by any stretch of the imagination. Here, there is scope involved, so it's more of an "entitlement" issue as per our contract. God I hate the word "entitle". This is real simple. Pinnacle pilots need to all get together and say that using the LOA will not happen. We won't let our fellow company pilots get screwed and we expect them to not screw us if something should come up in the future. SIMPLE!! Until that is done, you will not get my respect as a pilot group (not that anyone should care I guess).

What Scope? There is nothing in the Mesaba book that can't be worked around. Even if it did apply it provides for nothing more than "employment opportunities". You'd be hard pressed to apply that to anything more than a spot in a new hire class.

The heart of the issue here is that the Mesaba pilot group doesn't seem to have any remorse for the a** f**king they gave Pinnacle pilots back in '97. Now that the tables are turned Mesaba pilots expect and demand better treatment than what they gave while refusing to acknowledge their own past misdeeds. Come out and say that what you did in '97 was unfair, then you might get some respect and compassion.

 

[DoinTime]

So, put yourself in their position. Let's say you spent 6 months at the very bottom of the Pinnacle seniority list. Then they furlough you. After that, it is announced that the airline you were conditioned to hate bought Pinnacle. You get offered a job at said hated airline, so you take it because it's better than not working.

So Mesaba pilots are conditioned to hate Pinnacle pilots? Do they teach you that in ground school or does it wait for OE?

I am not sure why the Pinnacle pilots feel so strongly about screwing Mesaba pilots.

Maybe its because you hate us for no cause.

 

[Smarta$$]

Okay, obviously I don't know the situation, so I am going to make some sweeping generalizations. Seeing as you are at Pinnacle, I would assume you have never been furloughed. So, put yourself in their position. Let's say you spent 6 months at the very bottom of the Pinnacle seniority list. Then they furlough you. After that, it is announced that the airline you were conditioned to hate bought Pinnacle. You get offered a job at said hated airline, so you take it because it's better than not working. Now, you go through the training department (which I believe is common knowledge not that good), and you get to commute to the bottom of the list again. So, about 1.5 years of your life has been at the bottom of a list, commuting, and furloughed. Cut the guys some slack. If they are truly just young punks, then I take this all back, because I too can't stand that. If they are a bit disillusioned with what is going on, take it easy.

Wow, you just can't win.

Yes, I have been furloughed.

No, they were local guys that were not commuting.

Attitude, arrogant. Really not the attitude you should have in this business, especially when you have had bad luck and are at the bottom of the list.

 

[xjgearbtch]

If you all spent half the time helping the union get this straightened out instead of crying here, we'd have a lot more meaningful progress. Thank god the folks working in the union aren't pissing into the wind and on onto each other like you all are. This is embarrassing.

 

[Smarta$$]

Haven't said anything bad about Mesaba pilots?

I specifically meant before cptmurf addressed me inappropriately. You have real problems with reading comprehension and following a conversation don't you.

 

[bri5150]

If you all spent half the time helping the union get this straightened out instead of crying here, we'd have a lot more meaningful progress. Thank god the folks working in the union aren't pissing into the wind and on onto each other like you all are. This is embarrassing.

Point well taken. I was just thinking after I called him "Nancy" back, maybe I should just stop posting.

 

[higney85]

Here is the problem... We have very valid arguments on both sides with various theories. Until the 15th everything is theories. From a liability standpoint I will not get involved in theories and LOA agreements on a public board with no true situation beyond a jcba/sli per process and protocol agreements. Sure, skepticism is the vast majority of viewpoints but it is the process getting full attention at the moment. My pilots are free to contact me, but I won't play the "what if" game on here when we have a process coming down to the wire.

 

[bri5150]

Here is the problem... We have very valid arguments on both sides with various theories. Until the 15th everything is theories. From a liability standpoint I will not get involved in theories and LOA agreements on a public board with no true situation beyond a jcba/sli per process and protocol agreements. Sure, skepticism is the vast majority of viewpoints but it is the process getting full attention at the moment. My pilots are free to contact me, but I won't play the "what if" game on here when we have a process coming down to the wire.

Love it!!

 

[CptMurf]

I specifically meant before cptmurf addressed me inappropriately. You have real problems with reading comprehension and following a conversation don't you.

Sorry if you took my comment personally. It was only intended to further your post. You stated the 9E union has been unwilling to stand and fight, and I stated XJs union is strong and willing to see the process through. My statements were not meant to imply your abilities, willingness, or union involvement.

Of the grandpa comment, I took it as senior and not old. I'm proud of my seniority at XJ. I'm ready to move on, but feel I'm in a good situation however this merger works out.

 

[CptMurf]

Here is the problem... We have very valid arguments on both sides with various theories. Until the 15th everything is theories. From a liability standpoint I will not get involved in theories and LOA agreements on a public board with no true situation beyond a jcba/sli per process and protocol agreements. Sure, skepticism is the vast majority of viewpoints but it is the process getting full attention at the moment. My pilots are free to contact me, but I won't play the "what if" game on here when we have a process coming down to the wire.

+1

The only reason I called you out was our thread about a month ago where you told me to contact my reps, for statements I made on here. My challenge still stands, to reply to any 9E pilots statements on here of screwing another pilot group, with a comment to chill out and contact THEIR reps. This has nothing to do with discussing negotiations, but rather controlling your outspoken brethren.

 

[CptMurf]

What Scope? There is nothing in the Mesaba book that can't be worked around. Even if it did apply it provides for nothing more than "employment opportunities". You'd be hard pressed to apply that to anything more than a spot in a new hire class.

The heart of the issue here is that the Mesaba pilot group doesn't seem to have any remorse for the a** f**king they gave Pinnacle pilots back in '97. Now that the tables are turned Mesaba pilots expect and demand better treatment than what they gave while refusing to acknowledge their own past misdeeds. Come out and say that what you did in '97 was unfair, then you might get some respect and compassion.

9E mgmt. Would be hard pressed to staff 61 aircraft with NO pilots taking an "Employment Opportunity."

You might want to research how the LOA came about. PM me and I will put you in touch with several of them that would tell you they were not screwed in the deal. Also, your arguments show your willingness to screw those same pilots again, plus several others that had nothing to do with that LOA. Nice.