Mesaba big annoucement imminent

[Simon Says]

Come on guys. Ease up on the 9E pilots. I am getting tired of this. Sheesh!

 

[captpetefam]

This just in from XJ's Mgmt.!

Just follow the link:
http://www.despair.com/planning.html

 

[captpetefam]

The Signs Are Just Too Much!!

Yup, it's coming for sure! A VERY reliable source told me this today: "You will be sharing great news with all the people you love." Then my source went on to say: "Lucky Numbers 5, 9, 20, 24, 34, 44."

Alright... my source was my Wok and Roll fortune cookie. I admit it. But, they're all true... right?

I'm just being overwhelmed from all sides... or maybe all my sides are overwhelming me (considering all the Chinese food)!

"Change is happening in your life, so go with the flow... [through]" [editors note] Hmmm, maybe this is about more than just crj's.

 

[Terry Hunter]

As far as pay goes, our current CA rates for the CRJ are more than the new contract at XJ. I know that XJ does not have any CRJ's yet, but when they do, those pilots will have to say that they fly it at a lower rate than 9E.

I'm curious... How many minutes after arriving would XJ have to wait to get paid extra for?

Some of the best advice I heard was "Don't turn to (just) section 3 of your TA, and then decide how to vote".

TH

 

[Crizz]

Scheduled of 2+05

Actual of 2+06

We get paid 2+06


Block OR Better

Good luck to you 9E guys negotiating. You've got alot of ground to cover.

 

[WildBlue]

Well said, Carl.

Honestly, saying what you will get now is like saying who you are going to take to prom and how you are going to screw her on the first day of school. Your intentions may be noble, but no one has any idea what will happen.

At XJ our union talked a good game. In the end our contract is good but the CRJ rates blow. But seeing as we have ZERO of them, and may never have any of them, I guess I can't say much. Hard to ask for industry leading rates for a plane you don't even have. People made fun of "industry leading Saab rates" but right now that is the best thing we have going.

T-prop driver 'til I die....

What is real interesting about this line of thinking is that during the 1999 negotiations at Pinnacle, nee Express I, their management asked for a 69-seat jet rate. The Pinnacle MEC's response was, "Sure, we'll give you Mesaba rates plus 5%." There was NO WAY that the Pinnacle MEC was going to undercut their "brothers" at Mesaba. This scenario was fully communicated to the XJ MEC during their negotiations with appreciative words all around from the XJ MEC.

Actually, it is much easier to negotiate industry leading rates for an aircraft that you don't have. How easy would it have been for XJ to negotiate an industry leading 747 pay rate? Instead, we see what happened. The XJ rates undercut the PCL guys. You know it as does everyone else.

The XJ pilots have been industry leaders in talking about the perils of the whipsaw. Too bad you didn't do something about it when you had the chance.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Oh for the love of god....

Let's settle this XJ vs. 9E thing once and for all. Let's all meet in front of the Itasca Grill in MSP and see who has the longest dicks. The team with the most sausage length wins, once and for all.

F***ing a this is getting old.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Hey Mel, you seem to be the point man on any new info. What's the latest??? We're half way through the 10 days and not so much as a peep from management. Did the NWA "higher-ups" like what they saw??? Gotta get new juice to keep the hopes alive...

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I would be willing to bet our current over your next one too.

Again, I think making predictions like this is a waste of time. What information are you basing this bet on?

We're still a minimum of 2 years away. And when we do get one, I'm guessing that there will be some sections that are better and some that are not as good. Then there will be a big pi$$ing contest to see who has the best overall contract.

 

[willis]

Maybe some of you can remember when mesaba was going through the final 6 months of negotiations everyone (XJ and 9E) was cool with eachother. Yeah we support you...and what not, but now it seems that the pilot groups have a wedge driven between them. IT'S CALLED FLIGHTINFO.COM For the handfull that post here there are probably hundreds of XJ/9E guy/gals reading this. I guess the point is that not all 9E pilots want to bash XJ, I hope you guys get more airplanes and have a good ride at Mesaba. As for me at 9E, well I'll deal with what is handed to me (weak fo's sometimes, crappy work rules) and make the best of it.

I can say that all 9E captains need to step up to the plate and correct your zero to hero fos as soon as they make a mistake. I get tired of listening to our flights checking on with ZMP at Flight level twenty thousand. Teach your fos things don't just sit back and let the standards fall apart in front of you. Perhaps a premium is necessary in our next contract for flight instructing. I know everyone makes mistakes but the fundamentals should be there.
Peace

 

[Rook]

True, but they may bring up the fact that it is "ramp control," not "ramp tower", but most of you still can't figure that out. Also that the majority of you used to work in your dad's barbeque sauce factory down in Mississippi and $20 an hour is pretty lucrative compared to that. Bye.

And this keeps you up at night? I'm sure what little friends I have over at XJ would say to get laid dude.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[Top Gum]

Hey Mel, what’s going on with the hiring at Mesaba. Are they gearing up for any new classes?

 

[WildBlue]

Yep... easy to get good pay rates when the rest of your contract sucks balls. What good is a better pay rate without "block or better" and without trip guarantee?

Compare apples to apples, my friend. What is the value of the entire contract? Even if we were all CRJ's I would take our current over yours any day of the week. I would be willing to bet our current over your next one too.

Do you honestly think your GIA wonderkids are going to "hold the line"? They barely speak English, how the heck can they demand a Comair type contract?

Get real.

In your zest to bash everything Pinnacle you entirely missed my point. XJ pilots asked for, and received, substantial support from 9E pilots during your last negotiations. The primary reason for that support was the perceived threat from whipsawing. Whipsawing is defined as pitting one pilot group against another in order to lower costs. This is usually done by attempting to get one group to lower their pay, or to take actions perceived as a threat to others livelyhood.

Whether your contract is better or not is completely beside the point. What was done was PERCEIVED by the Pinnacle pilots as an attempt to entice 50 seat flying to Mesaba. You negotiated very high pay rates for the flying that you were already performing, and, in turn, negotiated 50 seat rates that were lower than Pinnacle rates for flying that you did not perform. In other words, you took no personal financial hits and put in a rate to entice the flying to yourself.

Now comes the Pinnacle pilots to negotiate their deal, and we are already hearing from management about Mesaba. First in a video describing you as the "enemy" and at the table describing your rates. Can you not see how this plays before a very young group at Pinnacle that does not know all the history?

The thoughtful members of the Mesaba pilot will see how destructive this cycle can become. My point was, and remains, that the 9E pilots struck a blow against whipsawing when we had a knife to the throat in '99. We did not try to undercut the Mesaba pilots, even after all the bad blood generated by the loss of the MSP flying. When it was your turn to reciprocate, the PERCEPTION of many Pinnacle pilots is that you folded.

It is a perception that we must all work very hard to overcome. We are much better off if we can avoid this type of political faux pas. Just how hard would it have been for XJ to say, "Sure, we'll give you a 50 seat rate; Pinnacle plus 5%"?

 

[T-handle]

I don't have an actual pinnacle contract on me so I'm using what is posted at http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/78/18/ (though the website admin does round the cents up or down) and this is for 40-59 seat rates

5 year Mesaba CRJ CA 64.26
5 year Pinnacle CRJ CA 62.00

8 year XJ CA 70.21
8 year 9E CA 67.00

15 year XJ CA 86.35
15 year 9E CA 82.00

FO rates respectively
XJ newhire 23.54
9E 21.00

5 year XJ FO 35.80
5 year 9E FO 34.00

If the Pinnacle cotract posted at this website is current, Mesaba is higher and never undercuts 9E, though it's a matter of dollars and pennies which even in the yearly salary isn't even that much more when work rules play a bigger role in your final W-2.

Compare us to the high and low of the others:

Now looking at the both ends of the spectrum, high and low Captain

Comair 5 year 68.00
Comair 8 year 75.00
Comair 15 year 92.00

Mesa 5 year 59.00
Mesa 8 year 64.00
Mesa 15 year 78.00

We could go on and on and on over 1, 2, 5 or 10 dollars per hour but the fact is we're all pretty much cut short from management laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

When XJ signed their contract, PCL had higher CRJ rates. The problem now is that PCL is now only getting longevity raises, no contract raises.

 

[Mel Sharples]

When I originally made this post, all info was accurate. The announcement could still come at any time but apparently NWA is dragging their heels.

The deal between XJ and ALPA is done. XJ is ready to go, we are just waiting for NWA to award the planes. For some reason NWA got cold feet. It was a "done deal" and still could be. Not sure why NWA slowed this down. XJ hiring will continue at accelerated rates until further notice.

For anyone who cares, I am not a union rep or officer of any kind. None of this info came from ALPA sources.

Hopefully NWA decides to keep going and makes the annoucement. Something spooked them and I really wish I knew what it was.

 

[IFIxUmUBrakeUm]

Yet another Let Down!!!!!!!!

 

[DoinTime]

I don't have an actual pinnacle contract on me so I'm using what is posted at http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/78/18/ (though the website admin does round the cents up or down) and this is for 40-59 seat rates

5 year Mesaba CRJ CA 64.26
5 year Pinnacle CRJ CA 62.00

8 year XJ CA 70.21
8 year 9E CA 67.00

15 year XJ CA 86.35
15 year 9E CA 82.00

FO rates respectively
XJ newhire 23.54
9E 21.00

5 year XJ FO 35.80
5 year 9E FO 34.00

If the Pinnacle cotract posted at this website is current, Mesaba is higher and never undercuts 9E, though it's a matter of dollars and pennies which even in the yearly salary isn't even that much more when work rules play a bigger role in your final W-2.

T-handel...I think you are confusing the 4-5 year capt. rate at PCL with the 5-6 year rate at Mesaba. The current 4-5 year rate at PCL is $62.14. I don't have a current copy of your contract but by my calculations your 4-5 year rate should be $63.37. Someone correct me if I am wrong. During the period from May 1, 2004 to your DOS +1 PCL capt. rates exceeded Mesaba rates through all compareable longevities. Not that amounts we are talking about even matter.

 

[T-handle]

The current Mesaba 4-5 year CA rate is $62.37

But like I said, I'm getting my info from a 3rd part website that doesn't guarantee accuracy. Like I said earlier, we're talking dollars and/or pennies. Doesn't matter if we're fitty cent cheaper or more, it's the same.

To compare your rates, between May 1,2004 to our DOS + 1, is like comparing apples to oranges, since your contract is done and ours is beginning with 4 years left. Work rules play a big, if not bigger role, in how much really shows up in your W-2. best of luck in your negotiations.

 

[psycho]

Hold the presses

It's official !! The big announcement is out and reads as follows:

Drumroll please...

Mesaba pilots say " No more fooling around, we really are going to strike this time !! "

WORD