MESA TA passes 78%

[Prop Trash]

Have all the MESA pilots gone into hiding? I'm really surprised that none of the "drunk on koolaide" pilots have responded to the critisizm here. For the 179 pilots who voted against the TA, thanks for having the balls to do so. For the other 663 who voted in favor, I hope you love what you've done to the industry when you sober up and realize and realize how badly you've been screwed.

 

[mckpickle]

I don't think you can pin the "lowering the bar" entirely on the new Mesa contact. The industry is in shambles. What happens if United folds entirely this year? What happens if American files for bankruptcy? No one is making any money so it is easy for them to lower the bar.

There so so many things weighing down receiving a better wage. Had friends bragging about a great new contract they would be getting at NetJets. Well they are now asking for pay concessions.

I just wish the Mesa contract wasn't so long.

Face it things just suck right now. You will have a tough time getting what you deserve. Sign a short contract so when things turn around in 3-4 years you can take advantage of it.

SHUT UP< SHUT UP, SHUT UP. You had your chance to speak and you did so by voting yes. SHut your stupid F%$#&#g hole.

 

[sonic340]

Since the Mesa yahoos don't see the big picture as to how what they just agreed to affects all of us, why don't we show them the big picture and cancel all jumpseat agreements and let them find out that we all need each other in this industry. If they don't want to be "professionals" then they can find their own way to work. Why should we extend professional courtesy to a bunch of hangar rats as someone in a previous post stated. Thanks alot guys! You won't be riding on me.

 

[CRJ Driver]

I hope you have some ID90's in your bag, thats the only
way your getting to work.

 

[azpilot]

Re: Where do I start???

I can't believe this sh.it. I normally don't go after anyone personally, but azpilot wake the f.uck up. Yes the industry isn't the strongest right now, but does it really look like Mesa is hurting?? Yes the little c.ocksuckers at Mesa just lowered the bar. You have carriers such as Skyway, Mesaba, ASA, and CoEx all in negotiations and now they just gave all of those companies managements reason to point over there and say see!!!!

"Yes the industry isn't the strongest right now" It is the worst ever so you have no baseline for current negotiations.

A single carrier cannot lower the bar for an entire industry just like a single carrier can't raise the bar for an entire industry. So with your analogy everytime an airline gets a better contract it will be easy for the others to get the same. I don't think so. Did the pilots at American Eagle lower the bar for the entire industry with their crappy contract? Nope

Are all the pilots at SWA, HP, Airtran, Jet Blue, and Frontier "c.ocksuckers" because they make less than the folks at the big 4?

If your company is making money you can hold out and argue for a better contract. If your company fly's for someone like United and United folds where will your leverage be? Can you stand on your own without United? If so you might get a raise because you will be flying the old United routes for less money.

Why do you think the majors are so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed right now? Well United is getting paid the best wages we deserve to be #1, well American is now getting paid the best wages for we deserve to be #1, so Delta is now getting paid the best wages we deserve to be #1, so we at US Air want to be paid the best for like equipment i.e. 737. Where has that gotten them? They are all in the Sh!tter right now.

Why don't you bitch at ALPA for telling the Mesa folks to vote yes?
If it didn't pass Freedumb would have just expanded and the bar would have been lowered even more.

If you don't like the contract presented before you don't vote for it.

I totally agree that a lot of the Mesa rates suck. If you don't like it don't fly for them and don't fly on any of the airlines that use them. Air Wis was more expensive on the AirTran bid than Mesa and they won the deal. I wonder why? The same can happen for other carriers who will then in turn be able to pay a better wage.

 

[azpilot]

SHUT UP< SHUT UP, SHUT UP. You had your chance to speak and you did so by voting yes. SHut your stupid F%$#&#g hole.

Hey McPickle F*ck You! I don't work for Mesa a$$hole. So I didn't vote for the contract. If I did work for Mesa I would have voted no. The result would have been the same. So kiss my ass.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

I find it amusing that the folks at Mesa are not being "professionals", and all but a few of you have really shown your "professionalism" under this thread.
I guess they aren't the only ones "lowering the bar".

The irony...


SLC

 

[mckpickle]

a$$ kissed, I stand corrected, But your post did apear to be from a mesa pilot. Just a little frustrated because our management came out last week and stated the they could not give us certain things BECAUSE of the Mesa TA. I'm a little worked up.

But you need to understand we are not trying to kill the golden goose, but when Mesa takes less than the rest of us are getting NOW, before we negotiate new contracts it lowers the bar. We are not trying to get rich, I'd just like to see my F/O's eat a decent meal. But how can we compete if we want 12 days off, and Mesa only needs 8?

 

[General Lee]

AZpilot,

If you accept pay at a lower rate, soon that will become "industry standard." We at Delta have great pay rates, which were close to United's about 1 year ago. Now, unfortunately, United had to take cuts and we are now "way way way over paid." Well, I agree in some way that we are paid a lot more than anyone else, and that it probably should be lowered a bit. There really shouldn't be a 30% pay difference between carriers in times like these. But, we won't just give up 30% to be equal to them. Can you see this? We are fighting to keep that pay bar as high as we can. We understand that this industry is sucking wind right now, but will try to keep the bar up as high as we can---keeping us above water ofcourse. The Mesa TA has slashed expectations and could create a lot more opportunities for Mesa guys, but at the same time undercutting everyone else who is fighting for a fair contract. (like ASA etc.) You just undercut them. I am sure JO and Dave Seigel will both win awards from the ATA for "Helping to drive down wages from those pesky pilots.." I hope you enjoy being a CRJ-90 Capt at $50.00 an hour. But hey, what's money good for anyways...? Atleast the America West guys have b@lls and turned down their TA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[azpilot]

AZpilot,

If you accept pay at a lower rate, soon that will become "industry standard." We at Delta have great pay rates, which were close to United's about 1 year ago. Now, unfortunately, United had to take cuts and we are now "way way way over paid." Well, I agree in some way that we are paid a lot more than anyone else, and that it probably should be lowered a bit. There really shouldn't be a 30% pay difference between carriers in times like these. But, we won't just give up 30% to be equal to them. Can you see this? We are fighting to keep that pay bar as high as we can. We understand that this industry is sucking wind right now, but will try to keep the bar up as high as we can---keeping us above water ofcourse. The Mesa TA has slashed expectations and could create a lot more opportunities for Mesa guys, but at the same time undercutting everyone else who is fighting for a fair contract. (like ASA etc.) You just undercut them. I am sure JO and Dave Seigel will both win awards from the ATA for "Helping to drive down wages from those pesky pilots.." I hope you enjoy being a CRJ-90 Capt at $50.00 an hour. But hey, what's money good for anyways...? Atleast the America West guys have b@lls and turned down their TA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Let me make it emphatically clear that I also agree that pilot wages are not the cause of the airlines taking it so much in the shorts. We will forever be the excuse. I am glad the HP folks said no. The contract sucked. I don't think they will be able to get a lot more than what was currently proposed but the no vote will help.

Keep trying to hold up the bar and stay the hell out of bankruptcy. Otherwise what United and US Air's management is trying to do will be the road map.

Let's get the facts straight it starts at $51.17! LOL

 

[Desiday]

You Mesa guys are pathetic, a real disgrace.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Well that should just about torpedo any hopes of my sister airline (CALEX) getting a decent contract.

Speak for yourself. I for one will rather see CALEX go tits up than get a crappy contract. Anyone have the number to that truck driving school?

 

[328dude]

(((((((((.) ((((((((((.) ((((((((((.)

(((((((((.) (((((((((.)


Psss, hey Mesa Dudes.


Please reattach your balls below.





OO OO OO

OO OO


Should look like this when you get a pair

(((((((((((((((.)
OO

Have a nice day

 

[meanstreak]

I honestly will not ley Mesa on anymore of my jumpseats. I don't care if you take my name down and ban me from your airline, you will never ride with me again.

 

[Boeingman]

Speak for yourself. I for one will rather see CALEX go tits up than get a crappy contract. Anyone have the number to that truck driving school?

Hey, I'm on your side pal, but that doesn't change the fact this has just made your leverage with management that much tougher.

If you want to live in fantasyland and expect some exponential pay raise in light of this....go ahead.

 

[Snapperhead]

Anyone have a copy of the agreement? Please post it so we can all see how **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty it is.

 

[bahjaus]

I am not a Mesa pilot, and I don't agree with all the angry rhetoric going on here. Sometimes it seems to me that most pilots actually live in a bubble and are not aware of what's going on around them. I am going to provide facts only, and lets' try to have an intelligent debate here without name calling:

Most posts infer that ACA, Comair, Air Wisconsin, Skywest, ASA, CoEx are in the same category as Mesa financially. It's true that that they all fly similar equipment, but if you are saying that any 2 companies flying the same airplane should pay the same regardless of their financial health, then you should be bashing not only Mesa but Spirit, Midwest Express, America West, AirTran, Frontier, JetBlue for flying similar equipment for a fraction of what UAL, AMR, DAL pay. If you wanna go down this route and be consistent, then you should blame the SWA pilots for signing a low-cost long-term contract back in 94 to allow their company to grow aggressively and steal market share from the big 4.
Let's compare cash positions for Mesa, ACA and SKYW, from the latest SEC filings:
Mesa: $39.8 million.
ACA: $243 million
SKYW: around $400 million
If this doesn't tell you that there are significant differences between what Mesa can afford and what the other 2 can, then you have a problem.
Comair had a profit margin in the 20's when their results were public before being bought by DAL. All the people here saying Mesa is profitable up the wazoo. Fact is Mesa declared losses for 4 out of the last 5 years, they lost $9.3 million in 2002 and $48.1 million in 2001. Go read their SEC filings.

Last point I want to make to all who are saying that this will lower the bar in the industry, if your management comes to you saying hey Mesa got this we want you to do the same, then you have a very simple choice vote no. If you vote yes then start complaining that it's Mesa pilots fault like the WO pilots are doing now, then you are contradicting yourself. If you are saying to the Mesa pilots to vote no to their TA even if it will cost them their job because it'll preserve the bar for the industry, then you should also vote no to your management even if it'll cost you YOUR job for the sake of raising the bar.

 

[BoredToDeath]

bahjaus,

Would you care to expand on this statement?

**. If you vote yes then start complaining that it's Mesa pilots fault like the WO pilots are doing now, then you are contradicting yourself. **

 

[bahjaus]

Sure,

WO pilots voted for concessions lately and most of them on this board are complaing that they had to do so to preserve their jobs, i.e match Mesa's rates... As a WO pilot you have a choice to vote no to the concessions and be out of a job, you could have made that choice but you didn't.

Now you are asking the Mesa pilots to do what you couldn't do, vote no and face unemployment. It doesn't sem very consistent to me.

 

[Beantown]

bahjaus,

Would you care to expand on this statement?

**. If you vote yes then start complaining that it's Mesa pilots fault like the WO pilots are doing now, then you are contradicting yourself. **

Let me take a shot. The WO pilots say that they are forced to vote yes for concessions b/c of Mesa. Mesa pilots say they had to vote yes to this crappy TA b/c of Freedumb. All groups voted yes to save there jobs. Yes or No? (If no, why did the WO vote yes? In the case of PSA why did your MEC?)

It becomes contradictory for the WO pilots who caved in to save there jobs to call the Mesa pilots (insert any post from above) b/c they did the same. You did the same thing weather you like it or not. Sorry guys.

Bahjuas , It's good to read a factual, intellectual, thought-out post on a board filled with overacting, uneducated (on this issue) immature people. This thread is sad and shows alot about people who call themselves professionals. -Bean