Mesa and Delta...It's official

[FDJ2]

You didn't answer Surplus1's question. You dodge and redirect your response by asking several questions of Surplus that, if he takes the time to answer, you'll
dismiss and won't believe anyway.

If Chautauqua, Mesa and/or Skywest invest in Delta, how would you feel if those pilots made scope demands as layed out hypothetically for US Airways in the last paragraph of the update?

N, Surplus asked a question that has nothing to do with the fact that the RJDC through their lawsuit would eliminate scope.

But if you must know, I didn't read the RJDC hypothetical scenario, I tend to live in the real world. However, judging by your question dealing with demands from Mesa/Skywest etc., that's nothing new, demands are made all the time in collective bargaining. Do I like demands? No, but at the end of the day I'd have the CBA that was negotiated and ratified and whether I liked it or not is irrelevant. I didn't want a pay cut, I didn't want my DB frozen, or PBS, or more 70 seaters at DCI, or E jets at DCI, but whether I like it or not doesn't really matter, its what was negotiated.

Now answer my questions, if you can.

 

[FDJ2]

I wonder how cost-effective Mesa would be if they actually honored their pilot contract. Really, how does it feel Mesa pilots, to have what... 3000 outstanding grievances? Isn't it time to grow a pair and stand up for the sh*t you negotiated?

Mesa pilots had a better turn out at their informational picket line, denouncing managements actions, then ASA had at their informational picketing for their new PWA. Mesa pilots have a higher level of support for ALPA-PAC then any other ALPA regional pilot group. It can't be easy being a Mesa pilot and dealing with Mesa management, but at least they are trying to enforce their contract.

How do you feel about the CMR pilots Concessions4Jets deal?

 

[P38JLightning]

apples to impotence

>>>How do you feel about the CMR pilots Concessions4Jets deal?


Almost as bad as I feel about Mesa's totaly giving up the farm for their Avoidmywhipsaw2becomeyourwhipsaw pathetic excuse for a contract. Comair pilots deserve our digs for the pay freeze, but leave Mesa out of that conversation if you want any credibility whatsoever. A two year pay freeze when you're already at the top in no way compares to the crappiest contract in existance.

Glad to see the catastrophic Mesa announcement is entertaining to you though. Good on Mesa for donating to the PAC, but it in no way comes near to offsetting the massive dammage they've done and will continue to do to the "small jet" industry. Praising them for that or for anything good they may do (until they get a realistic contract...yeah right) is like saying the Tsunami was a good thing, cause it brought the world together or something. There might be a shred of truth to the statement on a philosophical basis, because bringing the world together is a good thing, but the bottom line is there was so much bad about it, saying anything good about it is moronic.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Flychicaga

You must have missed this part.

And (an explenation since many dont know/care), the issues percived with A exist because the pilots at A had to give in a situation i do not wish on any of you. Fighting a non-union company, Bringing back pilots at a company who would not give into whipsaw tackticks etc etc.
All so as to live to fight another day.

If you did'nt i can only asume that you have not taken an active part in to many section six negotiations and you have not been with an airline very long.
I say that because some things can only be learned or experiensed over time.

Take care.

Joe.

Ok, please correct the glowing grammatical and spelling errors so I can halfway understand this post and I'll try to respond. Thanks.

How do you feel about the CMR pilots Concessions4Jets deal?

I don't think anyone should be forced to give up pay and work rules to gain anything. Management needs the growth as much as the pilots. We shouldn't be fooled into believing otherwise. I think that management at nearly all airlines is playing the "pay for your jets" deal because they can. They know we'll give.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Great move Delta, subsidize ANOTHER regional airline who can use those dollars to subsidize your biggest competitor, a competitor that you rely on liquidating to avoid chapter 11 bancruptcy protection yourself. I can see the headlines already, Us Airways recieves 100 million dollar investment from Mesa air group and allows Airways to exit ch. 11 protection. I wonder how much cash ACA made off of delta to spend the last few months sucking away market share from delta on the east coast. They still don't get it.

This is right up there with saving 1 billion a year in pilot labor costs, just to have a fire sale of tickets. I guess it is over for delta. The day they go ch. 11 will be the best "amount undisclosed" I ever lost. Thanks GG, and Leo. I hope hell treats you well.

Maybe its true what I hear, airline managment could care less about financials, as long as they can screw pilots its all good. Or let me rephrase, as long as they allow pilots to screw themselves its all good. Now, in five years dalpa can not scope out mesa and chautaqua because delta would be in violation of previous agreements in place becasue of the long term contracts they have. The new slogan at delta and dci should be:
The rich get poorer, the poor get more flying.

 

[CitationLover]

I wonder how cost-effective Mesa would be if they actually honored their pilot contract. Really, how does it feel Mesa pilots, to have what... 3000 outstanding grievances? Isn't it time to grow a pair and stand up for the sh*t you negotiated? It's bad enough your contract sucks balls, but then you let JO and company walk all over you and not even honor it?

Disgusting. "Oh, let's picket! Let's picket!" Might as well have been picking your nose. At least then you would have had something to show for your efforts.

my young padawan such feelings lead to hate, hate leads to fear, fear leads to......JO!

 

[FDJ2]

>>>
Good on Mesa for donating to the PAC, but it in no way comes near to offsetting the massive dammage they've done and will continue to do to the "small jet" industry.

I don't blame the CAL pilots for Lorenzo, yet you seem to blame the Mesa pilots for their management. Give it a rest, they at least are trying to improve their lot. It must be entertaining for you to throws stones at the Mesa pilots while they struggle to bring all MAG pilots under one CBA and work hard to force their management to honor its agreements.

 

[bvt1151]

I don't blame the CAL pilots for Lorenzo, yet you seem to blame the Mesa pilots for their management.

That's because the CAL pilots actually did something to counter Lorenzo.

 

[drag]

Lets face it, CMR and ASA overpays its pilots. In order to be competitive, this cost will have to come down. Just as mainline narrowbody flying has been replaced by RJs and LCC's, now certain RJ operators are being replaced by more competitve providers. RJ pilot wages will only bear what the market will pay. Unfortunately for CMR and ASA, that market is far below your current rate. From a business standpoint, DAL is smart to outsource RJ flying to cheaper providers. Even Mesa will soon be undercut by XYZ. I'd guess the CMR and ASA will soon be spun off and have to market its product to multiple mainline carriers. These mainline carriers will offer bids to the CMRs, ASAs, Gojets, Whiskeys, and Republics, etc etc. Sink or swim on your own........Welcome to the the Big Leagues

 

[~~~^~~~]

Drag :

And that is where a union comes in.

There have always been and will always be pilots willing to fly with less sleep, airplanes with less maintenance, for less money.

A union which brings pilots together creates a monopoly on this replacement labor and elevates the profession.

ALPA has failed miserably as a union because they let a select few MEC's make decisions for all the other members.

~~~^~~~

 

[DASHDRIVER]

what I don't get is how anyone even mesa can underbid the rates of skyway. I mean, has anyone seen what they pay there captains? Its really low!

 

[JI Gone OH]

never mind

Yeah, never mind....

 

[smoknjoe]

Flychicaga

Posted by flychicaga.

Ok, please correct the glowing grammatical and spelling errors so I can halfway understand this post and I'll try to respond. Thanks

Well that was easy for you.

Take care.

Joe.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Lets face it, CMR and ASA overpays its pilots. In order to be competitive, this cost will have to come down. Just as mainline narrowbody flying has been replaced by RJs and LCC's, now certain RJ operators are being replaced by more competitve providers. RJ pilot wages will only bear what the market will pay. Unfortunately for CMR and ASA, that market is far below your current rate. From a business standpoint, DAL is smart to outsource RJ flying to cheaper providers. Even Mesa will soon be undercut by XYZ. I'd guess the CMR and ASA will soon be spun off and have to market its product to multiple mainline carriers. These mainline carriers will offer bids to the CMRs, ASAs, Gojets, Whiskeys, and Republics, etc etc. Sink or swim on your own........Welcome to the the Big Leagues

Really, overpaid? Are you? No? Then why would we be? Get a f--king clue. "Mainline narrowbody flying being replaced by RJ's and LCC's". Sounds like DELTA management making the decisions about where "mainline narrowbody flying" is going. Yeah, ASA and Comair have ALL the say in the world when it comes to where they fly to and with what equipment.....

 

[FDJ2]

That's because the CAL pilots actually did something to counter Lorenzo.

Did they succeed? I guess that depends, certainly CAL is still here.

 

[FDJ2]

Drag :


A union which brings pilots together creates a monopoly on this replacement labor and elevates the profession.

If the RJDC lawsuit wins, will there be a monopoly on labor? If the RJDC wins in court will ALPA be allowed to negotiate, let's say scope clauses that control the DL code and prevent DAL from outsourcing 777s to Freedom, Mesa, PCL, Mesaba etc.?

Get back to me on that one. It seems you RJDC folks just don't like answering those questions.

 

[bitememesa]

I just think its funny that the Comair VARS was out like 4 minutes after the announcement to totally denounce the situation. It took Mesa's MEC 2 days and a bogus complaint of "our internet was down" (isn't THAT the Mesa way?). It's ridiculous. Our own UNION has been whipsawed...the management loving hippies.

Our MEC won't get away with it this time. MAG pilots want to see the return of Freedum about as much as we want to impregnate a PHL F/A. Regardless if Freedumb is ALPA, is non-union, is whatever...no one wants the stigma of working for the most controversial airline in recent history.

Any questions though about how things are at Mesa? Apparently our other code-shares think we're doing a pretty good job...we haven't gotten a cease and desist order from United in at least 6 months, US Airways ain't complaining and America West...well they have no other choice.

Thank you all for your total misunderstanding of our operation, our pilot group, our MEC team (and your impressive confidence in them) and last but not least, for listening to anyone who believes we have "like...300 open grievances"

Pissha!

 

[greenpickle]

Not quite

what I don't get is how anyone even mesa can underbid the rates of skyway. I mean, has anyone seen what they pay there captains? Its really low!

It was the fact that Delta didn't want the FRJ's. Skyway is/was ready to fly that equipment and that equipment only. Back off of the cpt pay thing. Our pilot group and union were very happy with the progress that we made with our contract. We were a post 9/11 contract and we did well for ourselves while being reasonable. I think we are the poster children for significant and productive progress with a contract.

I have said it beforeand I will say it again. You can make fun of me, my FO, my wife, or my dog, but leave Skyway alone. We have done very well for ourselves without being stupid.

GP

 

[Propsync]

what I don't get is how anyone even mesa can underbid the rates of skyway. I mean, has anyone seen what they pay there captains? Its really low!

You don't get it because you're retarded.

Just to clue you in, we only fly 'little' 32 seat airplanes, we're not big jet jocks like yourself. On a per seat comparison, who makes more? I think you should make a lot more because you fly a 100 seat airplane, thanks for bringing me down. We make just as much and just a little bit more than most D8-100 and S340 guys out there, which is more our pay comparison, not a 50 seater. BTW, even though we don't have any, our 50 SEAT rates are mostly the same as everyone else.

Also dork, regional agreements are not just based on pilot pay. Thanks for calling.

 

[ShadowFlight]

GP and Propsync,

Don't bother arguing with DashDriver - some people are clueless about Skyway and will always be that way.

DashDriver,

Make you a deal. YOU worry about what happens at ZW and us SYX people will worry about what happens at our company. Fair enough? Don't worry - we won't drag down the industry like others since we only fly a "little" jet.

Peace

SF