Mesa and Delta...It's official

[runfast]

forgive my cluelessness, but what does the rjdc have to do with air wisconsin? can you post a link to this update you're referencing?

 

[FDJ2]

Oh, we understand the litigation just fine

You just don't want to answer a few basic questions about it. What are you afraid of? Your avoidance in answering some very simple and straight forward questions is noted.

 

[surplus1]

forgive my cluelessness, but what does the rjdc have to do with air wisconsin? can you post a link to this update you're referencing?

As far as I know the RJDC has nothing to do with AWAC, and this thread has nothing to do with the RJDC.

The thread is about Delta and Mesa, that's what my comment was about.

 

[FDJ2]

What about Delta's MEC? I'm sure they are going nuts with Mesa going to fly 90-seat RJ's through Freedom.

I dont think they are gonna be so willing to let this happen, let Mesa take their 90-seat flying

Mesa will be doing 50 seat flying at DCI, although they could also be contracted to provide 70 seat flying if Delta chose to. The Delta PWA allows Delta to contract DCI small jet lift requirements to any carrier so long as they don't operate aircraft with more then 97 seats and don't operate aircraft configured with more then 70 seats for DCI.

 

[PCL_128]

It's ALPA's bigoted, apartheid policy against small jet carriers like yours that has created this alter ego disaster.

"Bigoted, apartheid policy against small jet carriers like" mine huh? Well, I'm doing just fine thank you very much. After just over 3 years at PCL I'm sitting in the top 3rd of the seniority list with over 800 pilots below me. Meanwhile, 400 NW mainline pilots are on the street while DC-9s sit around doing nothing and Pinnacle and Mesaba continue to take deliveries of new jets. We grow and mainline shrinks. What was that about "apartheid" again? Who is it that's really suffering? I must be confused.

 

[Dodge]

Quit confusing the RJDC boys, PCL 128, with facts and common sense.

Just a side note here, but Mesaba has lost flying and pilots over the last 5 years, not gained. Last airplane showed up late 1999 or early 2000.

It does look as though in the near future that might change and now we can be added into the formula for the watering down of the airline pilot profession to some extent.

 

[PCL_128]

Quit confusing the RJDC boys, PCL 128, with facts and common sense.

Yeah, I should know better by now. Facts don't really matter when you're on a crazy crusade.

 

[248to2.8]

Quit confusing the RJDC boys, PCL 128, with facts and common sense.

Just a side note here, but Mesaba has lost flying and pilots over the last 5 years, not gained. Last airplane showed up late 1999 or early 2000.

It does look as though in the near future that might change and now we can be added into the formula for the watering down of the airline pilot profession to some extent.

And here I thought Skyway was the only regional to not grow since 9/11

 

[FDJ2]

The fact that pilots should be able to negotiate with their employer to reach an agreement on their wages and working conditions is nothing new. A contract which excludes the appropriate parties is voidable, since it was illegal in its inception.

Fins, first of all thank you for being the only RJDC advocate willing to attempt to answer some very basic questions about the relief section of the RJDC sponsored lawsuit.

Now according to Surplus, Delta is not his employer.

Yesterday, 20:59 #20

surplus1

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2002

Posts: 2,093 I accept your finding and ALPA's, that Comair pilots are not employed by Delta Air Lines.

Is Surplus Wrong? Does Surplus not know who his employer is? Are ASA pilots Delta Employees, but CMR pilots aren't? Unfortunately we are getting more mixed messages from the RJDC supporters.

 

[FDJ2]

Surplus: "I told you then and I tell you again now, when you answer my question about the hypothetical, I'll answer your questions."



I'm still waiting.

 

[N2264J]

Well said, N2264J.

Thank you.

I was beginning to think FDJ2 was starting to come unhinged. If you reread what he's written in the last 10 days or so, he seems to be having a very difficult time processing information and constantly repeats himself as if we don't understand his orders (he take's this tone as if he believes we're somehow subordinate to his pilot group). He's asked the same questions in that endearing, bi polar way, not just here on this thread but also took the time to start two other threads here in the Regional section and one in the Major section of Flightinfo, in addition to "outing" himself on the ALPA board with the same post.

To say that he "doesn't get it" may be an understatement but perhaps his frustration stems from the fact that he just can't sell it. The Delta MEC made their bed and now they're going to have to lie in it. I'm not sure we owe them an explanation for that although we've been airing our grievances and explaining the problem here and on the ALPA board for 4 years. If our detractors are not willing to listen, no answer will suffice anyway.

Then, it hit me. I understand the attorney in the Ford suit has delivered to ALPA the names for the first four depositon subpoenas and I don't think anyone at the Delta MEC was expecting those guys to be on the list. You know that "WHOOF" sound you get when gas vapors ignite just prior to the explosion? Perhaps this explains the shrill hysteria.

 

[FDJ2]

He's asked the same questions

And you avoid answering them over and over again. Did I hit a raw nerve exposing your hypocrisy? Does it hurt when I do that?

BTW, Braveheart outed himself on the ALPA National forum, he posted the exact same post their as he has here. Inclusives done the same thing. Unless of course that was a cut and paste job.

You see I have nothing to hide, the same can't be said for you and your buddies.

It's fun watching you RJDC guys run and hide from your own lawsuit. Refusing to answer the simplest questions. What do you have to be afraid of?


8 Simple Questions for the RJDC
Simple questions Braveheart refused to answer

1. Can the DAL pilot group, or any pilot group own/control their code?

2. If you can't control (own) the code, then how can you prevent outsourcing?

3. According to the RJDC lawsuit, can ALPA negotiate scope language for the DAL pilots that limits another ALPA pilot group access to the DL code regardless of wholly owned status?

4. According to the RJDC, does CMR/ASA being wholly owned or not have any effect on the RJDC lawsuit? If so, what does it change?

5. According to the RJDC lawsuit, would ALPA be allowed to negotiate scope limits on the DL code which would prevent another ALPA pilot group from flying DL code passengers on 90 seat, 110 seat or 150 seat aircraft?

6. If the RJDC lawsuit were to prevail, would a combined DAL/ASA PWA be able to apply DL code scope restrictions on CMR if CMR were a wholly owned or spun off? How about scope restrictions limiting DL code access to Mesa or Freedom?

7. Explain the following from your lawsuit and how it prevents whipsawing and outsourcing:

"Plaintiffs thus seek an injunction ordering ALPA to stop negotiating or assisting in the negotiation of scope clauses in such a manner as to exercise control over the flying by pilots for a carrier other than the one for which the CBA is being negotiated"

8. Is there any claim for relief in the RJDC lawsuit which would compel a single list or PWA? If so, which one?

There is no demagoguery or political slant to any of these questions. Straight froward questions deserve straight forward answers, not evasion. I look forward to Braveheart's straight forward answers.

 

[say again]

Will someone answer the dang questions??? Say anything, please!

 

[FDJ2]

Will someone answer the dang questions??? Say anything, please!

That would take courage and honesty, characteristics the RJDC supporters seem to lack. And that's been noted.

 

[uba757]

FDJ2, Im a new pilot at CMR and dont know much about the RJDC and really dont care at this moment. I will tell you this when the deal with Delta and Mesa came out you were all happy and making fun of the CMR and ASA guys so you have no right or place to ask anyone to be honest and show courage because those qualities in a person would make you realise that Mesa coming into Delta, DCI or what ever you want to call it is bad news for all of us. I think you are a very bitter man and I hope you can get over this childish and imature obsession (The RJDC). Again I dont care about the RJDC but I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. Answer the question, answer the question. For god sake enough. You dont like the guys at CMR and ASA great we get the message. You think the RJDC has no chance in the courts great we got the message on that also. Please just let it end. Listen we have more important things to worry about like Delta going Banckrupt. Just let it end. Nothing personal just tired of the same thing over and over. UBA757

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

FDJ2, Im a new pilot at CMR and dont know much about the RJDC and really dont care at this moment. I will tell you this when the deal with Delta and Mesa came out you were all happy and making fun of the CMR and ASA guys so you have no right or place to ask anyone to be honest and show courage because those qualities in a person would make you realise that Mesa coming into Delta, DCI or what ever you want to call it is bad news for all of us. I think you are a very bitter man and I hope you can get over this childish and imature obsession (The RJDC). Again I dont care about the RJDC but I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. Answer the question, answer the question. For god sake enough. You dont like the guys at CMR and ASA great we get the message. You think the RJDC has no chance in the courts great we got the message on that also. Please just let it end. Listen we have more important things to worry about like Delta going Banckrupt. Just let it end. Nothing personal just tired of the same thing over and over. UBA757

THANK YOU.

 

[viper01]

Well said....

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sure he'd be happy to stop as soon as someone answers the frickin' questions!!!! Fins, Surplus, N, somebody must have the balls to actually answer a question or two. These questions have been posted on here and on the ALPA national boards and nobody will answer despite the fact that many RJDC supporters frequent both boards. The RJDC supporters are looking pretty ignorant and pathetic right about now if they're too afraid to even answer some straight forwards questions.

 

[SouthTex]

Let's move this convo to a different forum.....like a bar, oh wait, I am already there.


Borracho ain't just for the beans anymore.

 

[uba757]

PCL not in every single F--ing Thread. Every Thread turns into the same F--ing thing. Answer the question over and over. Just do it in one thread and the rest of us are free not to have to read it but not every single Thread. UBA757