Mesa and Delta...It's official

[N2264J]

What is your take on the hypothetical outline of the "new" Air Wisconsin scope re US Airways? Would you be content if that type of scope appeared in a contract affecting the Delta pilots? Would you feel that efforts to prevent it were unreasonable and without legal merit?

I just wonder how double your standard really is? Do you have the guts to tell me and the rest of the audience?

N, Surplus asked a question that has nothing to do with the fact that the RJDC through their lawsuit would eliminate scope...But if you must know, I didn't read the RJDC hypothetical scenario, I tend to live in the real world...Now answer my questions, if you can.

I don't think it's lost on anyone here that you still haven't addressed Surplus1's questions?

I suspect you really have read the Air Wisconsin/US Airways scenario in the RJDC update but it occurs to me that you can't answer without looking like a hypocrite and/or a fool. So you clumsily side step the embarrassment by asking questions we've been answering here and on the ALPA board, for four years now while repeating the lie that the lawsuit seeks to end all scope.

Not all "regional" pilots are as gullible as you think we are and your dancing around the question is really an answer in itself. Noted.

 

[greenpickle]

Yeh

You don't get it because you're retarded.

Just to clue you in, we only fly 'little' 32 seat airplanes, we're not big jet jocks like yourself. On a per seat comparison, who makes more? I think you should make a lot more because you fly a 100 seat airplane, thanks for bringing me down. We make just as much and just a little bit more than most D8-100 and S340 guys out there, which is more our pay comparison, not a 50 seater. BTW, even though we don't have any, our 50 SEAT rates are mostly the same as everyone else.

Also dork, regional agreements are not just based on pilot pay. Thanks for calling.

Yeh, what Propsync said!!!

 

[ILLINI]

So Mesa gets in bed with Delta and from what i've heard they took over the Do328JETs.

Hmmmmm... I wonder if they will be using those on the United side to fly into Aspen to replace AWACs 146's???

 

[FDJ2]

I don't think it's lost on anyone here that you still haven't addressed Surplus1's questions?

N, how nice and misleading of you to edit my response to Surplus in order to mislead the reader. Did you think I wouldn't catch that. Shame on you.

Here's the part you left out in the middle of what you quoted I said:



However, judging by your question dealing with demands from Mesa/Skywest etc., that's nothing new, demands are made all the time in collective bargaining. Do I like demands? No, but at the end of the day I'd have the CBA that was negotiated and ratified and whether I liked it or not is irrelevant. I didn't want a pay cut, I didn't want my DB frozen, or PBS, or more 70 seaters at DCI, or E jets at DCI, but whether I like it or not doesn't really matter, its what was negotiated.




I suspect you really have read the Air Wisconsin/US Airways scenario in the RJDC update but it occurs to me that you can't answer without looking like a hypocrite and/or a fool.

No, I really haven't. Does it matter, it's just a hypothetical, you can keep pulling those out of your arse all day.

So you clumsily side step the embarrassment by asking questions we've been answering here and on the ALPA board, for four years now while repeating the lie that the lawsuit seeks to end all scope.

No, you've refused to answer those questions repeatedly. Notice that you still haven't answered those questions. I wonder why, perhaps it would point out the deceit which is all too common in RJDC rhetoric.

Not all "regional" pilots are as gullible as you think we are and your dancing around the question is really an answer in itself. Noted.

I haven't danced around the question. Here's the short answer for you N. I wouldn't like the scenario where we would have to give up more of our scope and job protections. I would work hard to negotiate the best deal possible given whatever circumstances are presented. At the end of the day we would have a negotiated CBA and whether I like it or not is irrelevant.

Now how about you quit dodging the questions and answer them. I suspect you'll do what Surplus does, dodge the issue.

 

[N2264J]

I haven't danced around the question.

You still refuse to answer the questions Surplus put to you.

Your avoidance of Surplus' questions is itself, a revealing answer.

It's been noted.

 

[FDJ2]

You still refuse to answer the questions Surplus put to you.

Your avoidance of Surplus' questions is itself, a revealing answer.

It's been noted.

I'll try yet again for you N, then I suspect you'll keep avoiding my questions.

What is your take on the hypothetical outline of the "new" Air Wisconsin scope re US Airways? I haven't read it.

Would you be content if that type of scope appeared in a contract affecting the Delta pilots?

I haven't read it. But if I understand where you are coming from with this question, I'll say that I've worked for a contract carrier before, I saw the limitations of that type of career and that's why I moved on to a carrier that has scope over its flying. Would I be happy if we lost scope over our flying? No, that's why I oppose the RJDC's efforts to eliminate scope protections and increase whipsawing. I would not be content if I loss parts of the scope protections which are in my CBA.

Would you feel that efforts to prevent it were unrreasonable and without legal merit?

As a general principle, I would oppose the loss of DL scope protections which are in my CBA. That being said, negotiations are negotiations and you don't always get what you want. The collective bargaining process, as outlined in the RLA, governs the process, my efforts to protect the scope language in my contract involves collective bargaining, which is legal. I feel that it is reasonable to protect your CBA.

I just wonder how double your standard really is?

It's not a double standard at all, I believe in the collective bargaining process and I believe we should respect each others CBAs.

Do you have the guts to tell me and the rest of the audience?

I just did. How revealing is that, for the third or fourth time.


Now N, when are you going to finally answer my questions? Do you have the guts? Have I hit a raw nerve and exposed the hypocrisy of the RJDC, your lies and misleading statements? I'm waiting. Your avoidance is noted.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Fortunately, and thanks to you, I can observe this whole mess as an "airline enthusiast" rather than as someone whose livlihood depends upon it.

M.W.,

We're both looking at this from the outside now, but it doesnt lessen the anger or the pain of knowing that RJ flying still hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

This move will certainly make things even harder on ASA and Comair. If ALPA doesn't react soon, the internal explosion will be felt from LA to NY.

W.V.

 

[cardboardboxes]

So Mesa gets in bed with Delta and from what i've heard they took over the Do328JETs.

Hmmmmm... I wonder if they will be using those on the United side to fly into Aspen to replace AWACs 146's???

I do believe this is wrong. We'll be flying the routes the dorkjets used to fly, not the dorkjets themselves.

 

[FDJ2]

N2264J and Surplus, I'm waiting. When are you going to answer my questions? I doubt you have the courage, but maybe you'll surprise me.

 

[Propsync]

I'm waiting for answers, too. DASHDRIVER?

 

[WSurf]

Prop and Green,

I have a friend that quit Skyway during neg. on that last contract. It wasn't as nice as you say it was! They threw the Mesa contract in his face each time, so I guess you had mesa to compete with on that contract. For that I am sorry!
As for Pay Rates! You can throw any of those out the window if you don't have a good work rules. Work rules are the difference between 78hrs Pay Credit or 110 hours of pay credit per month.
Examples- 1)Do you get block or better on flights, bad wx and your holding to land... opps guess what, your working for free. Some four day trips end up paying like 5 days with block or better.
2)Min. Day - You should be paid atleast 4 hrs a day for your time reguardless what you do.
3)Cx Pay- Get paid in full if you flight doesnt go, for wx or mx.
4)DH pay, I know some companies don't even pay you while dead heading

Those are examples, here at my company I avg. over 100hrs pay each month. Mesa guys might make more Hourly, but at the end of the month my check is much higher due to WORK RULES.

So when Neg. a new contract don't get blinded by pay rates, much more things to consider in the working contract.

 

[FDJ2]

N2264J and Surplus, I'm still waiting for you to answer those very simple and straight forward questions.

 

[PCL_128]

N2264J and Surplus, I'm still waiting for you to answer those very simple and straight forward questions.

I have a feeling you'll be waiting for quite some time.

 

[Propsync]

Hey W,

We get block or better, but it's for the entire pairing, not leg by leg like some have. Maybe we can try for that next time. We get cx and dh pay, but no min. day/rigs. I agree that work rules are where the money is at. My whole point earlier was people do get so wrapped up in hourly rates, they do lose focus on the bigger picture. Yes, we make 8-10 an hour less than everyone else, but we only fly 32 seat airplanes. Does it mean we can't shoot for 50 seat rates next time? No. But that probably won't happen, either. I just don't feel people need to compare us to MESA as far as pay is concerned. We have a good base for better work rules next time.

About the whole throwing around the MESA contract, it was just the company getting nasty near the end of talks. Call it a 'tactic'.

 

[N2264J]

Apparently you don't even understand your own lawsuit...And guess what? They won't be transferring [the flying] to you, they'll be sending it to Mesa. Johnny O.'s been wanting to get his hands on some 737s for quite some time now. Maybe your silly little lawsuit will help him out. Wouldn't you proud of that accomplishment?

Oh, we understand the litigation just fine and are confident that our quest for fair and equal representation by our union will, in no way, contribute to the collapse of the aviation industry.

It's ALPA's bigoted, apartheid policy against small jet carriers like yours that has created this alter ego disaster.

 

[WSurf]

I agree prop, hey tell Felix A. that Billy from Piedmont Said Hello!!! If he is still there!!!


Thanks

 

[crjfo2b]

Delta Scope Clause?

What about Delta's MEC? I'm sure they are going nuts with Mesa going to fly 90-seat RJ's through Freedom.

I dont think they are gonna be so willing to let this happen, let Mesa take their 90-seat flying

 

[surplus1]

Oh, we understand the litigation just fine and we are confident that our quest for fair and equal representation by our union will, in no way, contribute to the collapse of the aviation industry.

It's ALPA's bigoted, apartheid policy against small jet carriers like yours that has created this alter ego disaster.

Well said, N2264J.

On a different note, it's too bad that DAL chose MESA when it could have chosen AWAC. It's kinda sad to see the big D resort to feeding off the algae.

 

[cardboardboxes]

What about Delta's MEC? I'm sure they are going nuts with Mesa going to fly 90-seat RJ's through Freedom.

I dont think they are gonna be so willing to let this happen, let Mesa take their 90-seat flying

we're not going to be doing any 90-seat flying for delta, looks like it'll be all 50-seater flying. the only 90-seat flying we do is for HP.

 

[FDJ2]

I have a feeling you'll be waiting for quite some time.

I have no doubt you are right. The fact that the RJDC refuses to answer a few simple and basic questions about their lawsuit is remarkable and noted.