Massive furloughs at Polar

[KeroseneSnorter]

Let us not forget the fact of who bought whom, and the condition of Polar at the time of the sale. If Atlas had not bought Polar you would have been out of business 3 years ago.

Oh O.K., so that makes it OK to furlough the junior guys who were hired after that while Atlas is flying overtime to cover the Polar trips(210 is the number this month I believe)......I got it now, thanks for clearing that up for me. Not that Atlas pilots have anything to do with it, mgmt. call, but boy you sure are enjoying this huh?

#10 post..................


BTW, a quick run down of the list appears to show that no pre-buy out Polar guy will get furloughed(other than PFE's), which is of course good news for you, you get to continue your feud with the senior guys for many years to come!

 

[Kruger Stellman]

Don't know who you are 744, but I like the way you write!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

And that list you guys are circulating of 160+ Atlas pilots who did nothing other than fly THEIR airplanes for the US Military, ACMI customers and even a Katrina relief mission while YOUR airplanes were parked, your flights not operating and your freight offices not accepting freight is exactly what? A little misunderstanding?

And the mysterious changes to the proposed LOA when Atlas was on the furlough hot seat were what? Yet another little misunderstanding?

For years you guys whine and sling mud, then expect the Atlas guys to fall on their swords for you. Sorry, life does not work that way. I know that I should feel sorry for you, but it is an effort. It would be easier if I felt some connection, but in years of trying I have managed to have only two (2) civil conversations with people from Polar—and one of them stiffed me with the bar bill.

Which raises a question--why won't your guys ever talk to Atlas crews? Are they afraid that your thought police will put their names on the "snake list"?


You guys have been badly lead. And you just relected the same gang.


And so it goes.

Again, how does this have anything to do with the junior Polar guys that are getting furloughed? They could not vote, nobody I know has ever seen the 160 list, and I talk to the Atlas guys all the time, how do you think I know about the 160 list and the massive amount of overtime you guys are flying to cover the Polar stuff while we sit around?

Thats 11 posts reveling in the demise of Junior mostly probie Polar pilots......lets do an even dozen shall we?

I can feel the love can't you? Boy nothing like a nice Atlas pep talk to put a spring in your step!!

 

[Classicdriver]

Again, how does this have anything to do with the junior Polar guys that are getting furloughed? They could not vote, nobody I know has ever seen the 160 list, and I talk to the Atlas guys all the time, how do you think I know about the 160 list and the massive amount of overtime you guys are flying to cover the Polar stuff while we sit around?

Thats 11 posts reveling in the demise of Junior mostly probie Polar pilots......lets do an even dozen shall we?

I can feel the love can't you? Boy nothing like a nice Atlas pep talk to put a spring in your step!!

Hey KS, not sure what your looking for here. As Atlas CM, we have nothing to do with the furlough. What do you propose we do about it? The reason junior guys are being furloughed is because that is how it is spelled out in your CBA. Junior guys and gals aways take the first hit.

Now if you want to find some blame, lets look at the options. First on all Polaroids list is the Atlas CM's. Tell me, what can I do to help you?

Next would be AAWH. You bet. But remember, Polar hurt the business with a strike that gained almost nothing over the offer on the third day of the cooling off period. "Bobb" had a vendetta to settle with Cato. It became personal. No matter what, you were gonna strike, because no way were you going to get a 26% raise. So as AAWH looks at who will suffer the reduction in the fleet, who would be your first choice if you were one of our MANY VP's. Easy choice.

And last would be your MEC. GOD forbid you question them. You might end up on another of their endless lists...the Snake list. You folks do like your lists. Beer for life list, snake list and the SBC list. Amazing. Ahh I digress. So what about your MEC? Any blame. The MEC were told over and over that they weren't the big money (revenue yes, income, no) at AAWH and constantly told you otherwise. And when things didn't shut down in fives days, as predicted, it wasn't a miscalculation on their part, it was those devilish Atlas crews flying your cargo. You notice, both MEC's always have someone else to blame things on. Cato's gotta be loving it.

The bottom line is your contract. All Polaroids love to talk about how great their work rules are. They are wonderful, but they were conceived when you were a pure scheduled carrier. Trust me, if a CM is happy with their work rules, it is an anchor around scheduling, marketing and managements necks. The response from Polaroids is scheduling and marketing should be able to deal with it. Well, they can't, so management is. And that leads us to Junior CM's being furloughed.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Hey KS, not sure what your looking for here. As Atlas CM, we have nothing to do with the furlough. What do you propose we do about it? The reason junior guys are being furloughed is because that is how it is spelled out in your CBA. Junior guys and gals aways take the first hit.

Classic,

You have missed my whole point. No where in this thread have I blamed Atlas crew members of anything.

In fact other than to start the thread with the furlough news, I did not even enter in to it until some Senior Atlas stooge advocated the intentional effort to try and prevent junior Polar pilots from being able to get a job.

Since then I have been blamed for, 1. An issue that happened 3 years before my arrival on property, 2. a "list" that I have never seen and only heard of through Atlas pilots, 3. Being responsible for a strike and strike related activities that occured while I was fired (Cato 42), 4. An LOA that occured before my arrival, 5. In general just being a bast$#d for being hired by Atlas Air to fly one of their 747's.....which happened to have a Polar name painted on it.

This list that you guys like to throw around? If it is so gawd awful prevailent, why the heck have I never seen it? The only mention of it in ANY Polar related Alpa stuff was on the web board(By a non MEC member), and that was to state that it would not be released until, and only if, there was evidence proven in an ALPA proceeding, which never happened. Now I do not doubt that somebody has some "list" out there, but we (junior boys) have never seen it, and you would think that if it were truly making the rounds and showing up in other airlines cockpits around the world on a regular basis that I would have run across a copy somewhere in a Polar airplane.

No I am just amazed at how many Atlas pilots are about to crap themselves with excitement at the prospect of a bunch of 2 year pilots are getting the boot........not exactly the poster children for a professional pilot group.

And the best part is that NONE of the pilots that you guys have a beef with are going anywhere....except to 400 school to crew the current and 6th 400 coming.

It also has to be said that it is very rare that I hear any talk about Atlas while at work, other than speaking of mgmt. and our own contract issues. From my point of view, this hate fest is very one sided. The simple fact is that most of the senior Polar guys do not find it interesting enough to speak about among themselves. This is not to say that there are not loud mouths on both sides, but so far in my personal experience in crew vans and hotels, the Atlas crew member has been the aggressor, just as it has been on this thread. I even had one lay into me about it one day.....and he was JUNIOR to me(by Polar/Atlas combined class date), hired 3 months after I was. To hear him tell it I personally screwed him over three years before we ever worked here!

Again, carefully note that I have not accused any Atlas pilot of anything having to do with our impending furlough(mgmt.s doing, using the two groups against each other), I only spoke of their joy in it. I have a feeling that already several are typing out an artful 12 and 13th post..........

P.S., Per your work rules statement, that is B.S., this has nothing to do with "restrictive" work rules, That is simply the excuse that mgmt is using. I spent 16 days last month on this "restrictive" contract.......mostly sitting on my a$$ in a hotel waiting on crew scheduling to let me fly something, while they burned $1100 a week to have me sit there plus my guarantee. On top of it my Atlas buds were being extended into their days off to fly Polar call signs on the very same day I was parked in a hotel at the VERY SAME CITY!!!!!!!!

 

[cfire]

K.S.

Is your council providing you any support or job help like the Atlas council did with their crews? Our council got pretty good at it. Every other time we turned around, aircraft and routes were being shipped over to Polar.

Has Polar's MEC said "Good luck guys" and that's it? Working with them in the past, I would say you were lucky to get anything. It took them a week after the company release just to make an announcement on the furloughs/terminations via VARS.

You plead ignorance of what happened so long ago. OK, what about the last couple of years? Did you have your head in the sand or someplace else just as dark and wet? I guess you just went fishing during the strike also. You have been around long enough to vote in that current MEC bunch at Polar so that is good enough for me. You must like what they have done or you have just been so complacent until your recent furlough and now you care.

Lets catch you up:

Head on over to this one thread HERE AT PPRUNE.org. That link goes to about the middle of current thread of ten pages. The one that had the Scab List has been pulled. So I guess you get to miss out on that. There are other Polar threads tossing the scab word around, but you'll have to find them via the search tool their.

Your MEC/Council in now Reaping what they have sown. They should be glad they were able to take advantage of all the misfortunes Atlas crews had endured. The shoe is now on the other foot. Was there any sympathy or cooperation given to the Atlas group when needed at any time other than when Bobb Henderson wanted support leading up to the strike. No, there wasn't.

Click through the whole Flash slide show ON THIS Page. It starts at the beginning after Polar got purchased to after the strike.

 

[weasel_lips]

Attention Atlas morons. You (2 or 3 on this board) are giving your whole airline a bad name.

You keep repeating your same propaganda over and over. We are familiar with it, thank you!

Gaining pleasure from people losing their job says volumes about your “character”.

At one time I was interested in joining the ranks at Atlas. Now that I see what a bunch of clowns you are, that has changed.

 

[sgu]

Weasel,

From the other side of the fence, I feel the same about Polar. This situation will play itself out painfully. Good Luck.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

K.S.

Is your council providing you any support or job help like the Atlas council did with their crews? Our council got pretty good at it. Every other time we turned around, aircraft and routes were being shipped over to Polar.

Has Polar's MEC said "Good luck guys" and that's it? Working with them in the past, I would say you were lucky to get anything. It took them a week after the company release just to make an announcement on the furloughs/terminations via VARS.

You plead ignorance of what happened so long ago. OK, what about the last couple of years? Did you have your head in the sand or someplace else just as dark and wet? I guess you just went fishing during the strike also. You have been around long enough to vote in that current MEC bunch at Polar so that is good enough for me. You must like what they have done or you have just been so complacent until your recent furlough and now you care.

Lets catch you up:

Head on over to this one thread HERE AT PPRUNE.org. That link goes to about the middle of current thread of ten pages. The one that had the Scab List has been pulled. So I guess you get to miss out on that. There are other Polar threads tossing the scab word around, but you'll have to find them via the search tool their.

Your MEC/Council in now Reaping what they have sown. They should be glad they were able to take advantage of all the misfortunes Atlas crews had endured. The shoe is now on the other foot. Was there any sympathy or cooperation given to the Atlas group when needed at any time other than when Bobb Henderson wanted support leading up to the strike. No, there wasn't.

Click through the whole Flash slide show ON THIS Page. It starts at the beginning after Polar got purchased to after the strike.

I started to type another long post, but it will serve no purpose other than to have you post links to items that happened prior to the furloughees getting here, so I will refrain.

For the record, I was not pleased when I heard about the 160 list, stupid move that served no purpose. At most only 2 or 3 names should have appeared, but that is based on stories that I did not see. Past that the Judges order clouded the subject.

I did have a conversation a couple of days ago that I found interesting, suffice it to say, I think the Atlas side is going to see what the Polar side is seeing very soon too. If that does happen, you have my condolences.

I will say this though, Cato is laughing all the way to the bank at the way he has pitted the two airlines against each other. Neither of you will win, I can guarantee that.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Gaining pleasure from people losing their job says volumes about your “character”.

At one time I was interested in joining the ranks at Atlas. Now that I see what a bunch of clowns you are, that has changed.

You know, that is the very reason that I was dragged into this thread in the first place. The bickering between the two groups is expected, after all it is a merger, they are never pretty. I ignore 99% of what I hear due to it.

The genuine glee that the Atlas boys are getting out of a bunch of families losing a livelyhood, that is the truly sad part. You are right it does speak volumes about their character.

If it makes you boys feel better, IDID IT, I SCREWED YOU ALL, I got hired by Atlas to fly a 747 with a Polar paint job............boy am I a ba$tard or what?