Massive furloughs at Polar

[cfire]

So basically, Atlas MEC has a beef with the Polar MEC about things that occured in 2001.

I guess you didn't read the post or just what you wanted to. There have been many issues between us leading up to now, 2006. The Scab List issue is just one of them and was just a few weeks ago, not in 2001. That also affects Atlas guys trying to get jobs. Of course there have been many issues besides the forementioned.

Not keeping up on current events demeans your concern for your job and/or reflects your councils inability to communicate to it's membership. Judging from todays Polar VARS message 1 800 253 5671 probably the latter.

BTW, I'm not on the MEC. I'm just one of the worker bees trying to make it bearable despite the efforts of others (Polar, Atlas Management, AACS, and GSS).

AHHH....Perhaps if Polar reclaims the 200 or more flights a month that Atlas operates (for us) as an "alliance" then we would-not have to furlough!!!

Maybe if your MEC didn't screw up the grievance/arbitration on the "Alliance Agreement" we wouldn't have to fly them.

 

[Classicdriver]

AHHH....Perhaps if Polar reclaims the 200 or more flights a month that Atlas operates (for us) as an "alliance" then we would-not have to furlough!!!

Again, how is that the Atlas Crew members fault?

 

[Draginass]

I still don't get it. How are Atlas pilots responsible for the furloughes at Polar?

When Polar union leaders/membership start tossing around the "S" word, they darn well better have it clear-cut, defined, and officially sanctioned by ALPA. Otherwise they're going to get it back in spades. Sounds to me like the Polar guys were stupid, out-of-control, lost the war, and now want to shift the blame to someone else. They obviously did not understand the legal CBA ramifications of a sympathy strike, then wanted Atlas guys to violate the law because the Polar MEC couldn't think more than 5 minutes ahead and were desperate.

You don't go into a knife fight with Cato, with only a squirtgun. If Polar crews want to know why they're out of a job, go no farther than the Polar MEC.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene, actually, its gotten out of control to the point where it's become personal. The two MEC's don't like each other, period. There is no trust there. They then spread that downhill to those that will listen. Remember, AAWH does not have the "Spin" market cornered. As bitter as things are, I can see "Bobb" turning down an offer of help from anyone having to do with Atlas. He's got the average Polaroid blaming Atlas for the Polar furloughs. Please explain that one to me, in simple terms, please.

The bad news is, the junior guy always pays first. The good news, they'll be senior at the next airline.

I don't think cfire is a member of the MEC, just a very busy hardworking worker bee. He's seen all the things that have gone on in the first person. I've spoken to more than a few involved with trying to help Polar in different situations, and each time they got burned, and swore to never do it again.

You have your one reason to change attitude toward Atlas guys, my list is longer. I held out until the SBC list. That did it for me. My grudge is not with the Polaroids out there, its with the Polar MEC's tactics.

If I have any beef with Polaroids, its their lack of involvement. I just spoke to an FE (Friday) who knew nothing about the furloughs, then gave me crap for being informed. Something about being attached to Purchase with an umbilical cord. He pleaded complete ignorance of any lists and knew nothing of the actions by "Bobb" in the cooling off period and didn't care to know. This is not the first time I've run into this. It's a little scary.

Lastly, its the family's that really suffer thru the furloughs. I'm sorry it came to people losing their jobs. But, what was the intent of the section 8 filings by the Polar SBC? Dismissals. Fired. A little worst than furlough. They went after 160 Atlas pilots, most VERY innocent.

Hopefully you took the signals sent out by AAHW as a warning and got the resume up to date. The Polar MEC has said over and over again that it couldn't happen, even with a multitude of crews sitting at home and in hotels. Well it's happen.

As far as the FE is concerened, I am not surprised that he did not know about the furloughs, if I had not received a phone call from somebody that got it via e-mail on my off days I would not have known until Catos letter showed up via snail mail.

The point about the 160 list? I heard of it through the Atlas side, we (Polar pilots) never received anything about it, concerning it or even any hint of it. To this day I do not know who initiated it or when...nobody I know does either. My info came from one of your pilots on a layover. So I am not surprised that the FE had no knowledge either.

I think what we have is a very small group on both sides stirring the pot.

Personally I think the furloughs are the only way the company can figure out how to legally get rid of engineers since they are on our pilot seniority list and are senior to half the pilots. The transfer of 200+ polar flights to Atlas and having the Polar pilots "sit" reserve in $1000 a week hotels while Atlas crews are extended into overtime month after month (per conversations with Atlas friends) is a nice way to increase crew costs to an "unprofitable level" as stated by Ericson and Cato. It is simply another example of one side being pitted against the other, to the benefit of none. Yet with all the petty vindictivness going on as exampled in this thread, the leadership is too blinded to see it.

You make valid points and statements about why you feel the way you do, but you also realise what is happening, too bad many others are blinded with hatred to see the truck coming at them. (Both sides)

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I guess you didn't read the post or just what you wanted to. There have been many issues between us leading up to now, 2006. The Scab List issue is just one of them and was just a few weeks ago, not in 2001. That also affects Atlas guys trying to get jobs. Of course there have been many issues besides the forementioned.

Not keeping up on current events demeans your concern for your job and/or reflects your councils inability to communicate to it's membership. Judging from todays Polar VARS message 1 800 253 5671 probably the latter.

BTW, I'm not on the MEC. I'm just one of the worker bees trying to make it bearable despite the efforts of others (Polar, Atlas Management, AACS, and GSS).


Maybe if your MEC didn't screw up the grievance/arbitration on the "Aliance Agreement" we wouldn't have to fly them.

Oddly enough, many Polar guys do not know about the list you speak of, I heard from an Atlas guy, as far as others in aviation? Most know about the large number of "s" guys that Atlas had at the beginning (Mostly just the ones that carry a copy of the official "list", none I have ever talked to ever mentioned the current events(Nor do I). Not that anybody really cares, most know nothing more of Polar and Atlas than they fly 747's, that is if they have heard of them at all.

No this thing between senior Polar and Atlas crews is very localized and personal, the rest of the world does not care. Heck I fly here and I intentionally stay out of conversations relating to the "event" other than like I said here that I know about it. It is a personal fight that was going on before I got here.....and now it appears it will still be going on long after I am gone. Good luck with your feud, as with most things like it, it consumes both sides in the end with no winner.

 

[Classicdriver]

Oddly enough, many Polar guys do not know about the list you speak of, I heard from an Atlas guy, as far as others in aviation? Most know about the large number of "s" guys that Atlas had at the beginning (Mostly just the ones that carry a copy of the official "list", none I have ever talked to ever mentioned the current events(Nor do I). Not that anybody really cares, most know nothing more of Polar and Atlas than they fly 747's, that is if they have heard of them at all.

No this thing between senior Polar and Atlas crews is very localized and personal, the rest of the world does not care. Heck I fly here and I intentionally stay out of conversations relating to the "event" other than like I said here that I know about it. It is a personal fight that was going on before I got here.....and now it appears it will still be going on long after I am gone. Good luck with your feud, as with most things like it, it consumes both sides in the end with no winner.

Agreed. Jumpseated a couple times and was only asked about how the merger was going. Most crews have to many worries of their own to care about a couple small time cargo operators. There are rumours of the SBC Proposed Scab list being seen in some other cockpits, but just third and forth hand stories. Much like the stories that appeared during the strike. They became fact because they were repeated so many times, it must be true?

 

[Kruger Stellman]

K.S. Please tell me you aren’t serious? The Polar guys are not the angles you make them out to be. I have been around here long before they were on the property, and have heard and seen the animosity in numerous crew rooms and hotels.

W. Rider, Got awfully silent after you re-read your contract didn’t you? Enjoy your 1 month with pay. Vacation, I think not!!

Kruger

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

K.S. Please tell me you aren’t serious? The Polar guys are not the angles you make them out to be. I have been around here long before they were on the property, and have heard and seen the animosity in numerous crew rooms and hotels.

W. Rider, Got awfully silent after you re-read your contract didn’t you? Enjoy your 1 month with pay. Vacation, I think not!!

Kruger

Funny how the most venomous posts come from the senior Atlas guys huh?

This thread alone has 9 posts from senior Atlas guys taking joy in the furloughs of Junior Polar pilots. The one quoted here is nice huh?(enjoy your vacation!!) Still my favorite is the one about intentionally trying to do harm to the job prospects of furloughed junior guys.....ahh that is truly a classic in the aviation profession.

 

[Kruger Stellman]

K.S. The reference to the “paid vacation” is from a post on pprune from one of your fellow crewmembers, Whale Rider, (very verbal but very ill informed) who said he was looking forward to his paid vacation while on furlough, that would be part of his contract. Not all of us at Atlas are happy about the prospect of pilots on the street. However, you all made the bed. You had the chance to get on the bandwagon on more than one occasion. You just let your MEC (who by the way just got himself qualified on the 400 to protect his ass) sent you down the path. Let us not forget the fact of who bought whom, and the condition of Polar at the time of the sale. If Atlas had not bought Polar you would have been out of business 3 years ago.

 

[744]

Still my favorite is the one about intentionally trying to do harm to the job prospects of furloughed junior guys.....ahh that is truly a classic in the aviation profession.

And that list you guys are circulating of 160+ Atlas pilots who did nothing other than fly THEIR airplanes for the US Military, ACMI customers and even a Katrina relief mission while YOUR airplanes were parked, your flights not operating and your freight offices not accepting freight is exactly what? A little misunderstanding?

And the mysterious changes to the proposed LOA when Atlas was on the furlough hot seat were what? Yet another little misunderstanding?

For years you guys whine and sling mud, then expect the Atlas guys to fall on their swords for you. Sorry, life does not work that way. I know that I should feel sorry for you, but it is an effort. It would be easier if I felt some connection, but in years of trying I have managed to have only two (2) civil conversations with people from Polar—and one of them stiffed me with the bar bill.

Which raises a question--why won't your guys ever talk to Atlas crews? Are they afraid that your thought police will put their names on the "snake list"?


You guys have been badly lead. And you just relected the same gang.


And so it goes.