Massive furloughs at Polar

[furloughfodder]

My favorite part about how blind with hate the Atlas guys are, is that they LOVE to bring up something that happened years ago when Atlas was preparing to strike but chickened out.

You guys all seem to believe Polar was somehow going to take over a bunch of your airplanes. Do you really believe that the Polar pilot group, had the power then or now, to take or give planes to you? News flash: we don’t own the planes, either do you! AAWH does. It was management who was going to transfer planes, just like they did when Polar went on strike.

You didn't see Polar pilots complaining when Atlas Worldwide Holdings decided to transfer 5 airplanes back to Atlas prior to our strike did you? It's because we understand that we have no control over which certificate AWWH chooses to place it's planes from one month to the next. Just like we have no control over the fact that right now, as Polar crew members are being furloughed, Atlas Air is operating over 200 flights a month with the Polar call sign. I have never once operated a Polar flight with an Atlas call sign. But we realize that AAWH has that prerogative, even though we think it stinks.

So, while you guys on this board take great pleasure watching 150+ junior Polar crewmembers get the axe, just remember, next time it will probably be you.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You guys all seem to believe Polar was somehow going to take over a bunch of your airplanes. Do you really believe that the Polar pilot group, had the power then or now, to take or give planes to you? News flash: we don’t own the planes, either do you! AAWH does. It was management who was going to transfer planes, just like they did when Polar went on strike.

Aww what the heck, I'll take the blame on that one too.......I DID IT, I was going to come over to Polar on my days off from my previous job and fly all your planes......for free!!! Just to screw a bunch of pilots I did not know....yeah thats it......

Anything else you what me to take the blame for? I am leaving soon so you might as well make the most of it!

 

[Draginass]

Time to lay off the BB and get that resume into Focus, Cargo 360, Kallitta, etc. Take your type rating and put it to use elsewhere.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Time to lay off the BB and get that resume into Focus, Cargo 360, Kallitta, etc. Take your type rating and put it to use elsewhere.

Actually I was thinking of opening a "House of Ill repute" But then I will probably be blamed for creating the clap or crabs.

I wonder if I can get the girls to PFT? uke:

 

[cfire]

If it makes you boys feel better, IDID IT, I SCREWED YOU ALL, I got hired by Atlas to fly a 747 with a Polar paint job............boy am I a ba$tard or what?


I started to type another long post, but it will serve no purpose other than to have you post links to items that happened prior to the furloughees getting here, so I will refrain.

Oh come on now, the credit doesn't go to you alone. Don't take the credit for what most of your peers have done. You just get the results of their efforts.

The links were to recent events. Did you just get hired in OCT 2006? You gave me the impression you have been here at least 2 years.

weasel_lips

Stay with your current employer. We don't need you raising the IQ at your present employer and lowering Polar/Atlas's by coming over.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Oh come on now, the credit doesn't go to you alone. Don't take the credit for what most of your peers have done. You just get the results of their efforts.

The links were to recent events. Did you just get hired in OCT 2006? You gave me the impression you have been here at least 2 years.

weasel_lips

Stay with your current employer. We don't need you raising the IQ at your present employer and lowering Polar/Atlas's by coming over.

Well at least that one didn't have any links to propaganda sites in it....so we are making progress!

 

[bman]

Neutral Corners

First of to the Junior Polar guys who are getting furloughed that suxs! quite a few of you were in initial indoc with me and I am sad to see it happen to you and surely do consider the fact that I could be sitting right where you are. Maximum suckage!!!

But I think many people on the Polar side miss the point of where the rancor is really coming from on the Atlas side. First we all know that there are rabblerousers everywhere, but they are few. The reality is the Atlas pilot group has a lot of fear (I don't say it as a knock, but as an honest observation). A large part of this group has been treated like an abused animal. Guys who have seen contract manipulation worthy of Houdini, GSS and AACS directly take jobs and suppress opportunities for advancement. And now are faced with a merger from which they will likely not directly benefit from at all. In fact it may go further to suppress upgrade opportunities for FOs who've been here for 8+ years and seen upgrades got to others within the same airline.

A merger with Polar doesn't appear to benefit the Atlas pilot group at all. When the subject is broached it shouldn't be a surprise that an emotional response comes shortly there after.

So what happens now?

It is a fact that the company surely perfers the Atlas contract to the Polar contract. This is plainly obvious as Atlas is flying ACMI polar flights and AAWWH decided to park Polar 200s not Atlas 200s. Which they could have easily done as the only difference in cost is Aircrew, but that's a huge difference! Consider if only that you are all JFK based. One week in a hotel at 1100 bucks is a whole lot less than a biz class fair JFK to Dubai last minute one way! Can you say STN base and RYANAIR?! Trust me there is a Dramatic difference and management knows it. This isn't a whipsaw this is economic plain and simple. That's all Management types understand. This ain't showfriends this is show business!!!

On another note being junior all due respect to your situations doesn't absolve you from the fray. I've had many "junior" guys lambast me on this board for expressing opinions about the strike. Even to the point of some very personal attacks!

You see as is frequently touted the differnce between Atlas and Polar is mindset. The Polar mindset is we're all Polar bros. in this together! You go I go! And the Probies very quickly assimilate this mindset it makes you feel good, but if you've spent anytime in the airline biz you know that is just a farce. All contract are negotiated by and for the Senior Captains. This is like cannon law and is much more inline with how things are over here on cutthroat island. At Atlas the attitude is I will get what I can how I can cause the negotiating commitee don't care about me! (see paragragh 2).

I'm not saying that either extreme is healthy as with anything the moderate approach is the most certain and insightful.

To those on the outside looking in realize that neither of these places are bad places to work. If you can deal with the nature of the job it can be quite a lot of fun and you can make a ton of money if you are willing to exchange your time for money!

Well enough of my drivel

 

[D'Angelo]

This is why its never a good idea to fall on your sword and go on strike. The old days are over guys. Time for arbitration like in baseball. This is the new airline industry not the old regulated one.

 

[furloughfodder]

This is why its never a good idea to fall on your sword and go on strike. The old days are over guys. Time for arbitration like in baseball. This is the new airline industry not the old regulated one.

Yeah, this really works.

Did anyone see how baseball arbitration worked for Alaska Airlines last year?

 

[Kruger Stellman]

I just had the best idea after inhaling the gas from a whip cream can. Lets furlough the Polar guys in reverse order.

 

[D'Angelo]

Yeah, this really works.

Did anyone see how baseball arbitration worked for Alaska Airlines last year?

Actually it was a pretty fair deal overall in the long run. Much better than falling on your sword for a corrupt union who laughs at everyone because we are all forced to pay dues or mx fees.

 

[furloughfodder]

Actually it was a pretty fair deal overall in the long run. Much better than falling on your sword for a corrupt union who laughs at everyone because we are all forced to pay dues or mx fees.

Fair deal?

Alaska: 28-34% Paycut

Polar: 10.5% Payraise

Any questions?

 

[mar]

Just one comment

Impertinent comment deleted.
Nothing to add.

 

[furloughfodder]

Impertinent comment deleted.
Nothing to add.

Must have been another link to the 'Caputo the Hut for President' website.

 

[bman]

Fair deal?

Alaska: 28-34% Paycut

Polar: 10.5% Payraise

Any questions?

But dude at what cost? A 10.5% increase of nothing is still nothing. That strike happened barely six months ago you don't think this outcome is a net resultant of that action?

No furloughs at Alaska.

This is an honest question

 

[cfire]

Must have been another link to the 'Caputo the Hut for President' website.

I wouldn't call it a Caputo for President site.

He just seemed to have a befitting message at the right time for the site as I was gathering more proof for my varied BB arguments. I'm just sorry the Slide show that was given to the ALPA Executive Board is so long. Judging from the number of things Polar has done, it has to be. Polar guys can't make it past the first five slides on what Polar has done and quit reading. It's there not so much for Polar guys as for the remaining part of the industry since the Polar group spends sooo much time bad mouthing Atlas to everyone who will listen to them.

I would call the site a reminder or conscience of how Polar's MEC and committees like to use everyone they can up and then urinate on them telling them it's raining. Followed by their usual cry for help when things turn against Polar later on.

Remind me again. Just what joint union agreements has Polar actually complied with that wasn't altered later or requested relief from when they were required to live up to it? Just what has Polar done to help any other Union? Bet that's a short list if any. What has Polar done to help their own find jobs with the recent furlough?

Hopefully this will shame your council into doing something other than blaming others. At Atlas, we got pretty good at helping find our guys jobs while Polar and AACS benefited flying our aircraft/routes.

Polar's Haunting Conscience Site



​

 

[D'Angelo]

Fair deal?

Alaska: 28-34% Paycut

Polar: 10.5% Payraise

Any questions?

Alaska: alive and well no furloughs.

Polar: potential 100% paycut for quite a few pilots for who knows how long. All this while senior guys just sit back and say "thats seniority at least ive got mine"

Any questions?

 

[furloughfodder]

bman and dangelo,

Okay, I get it. Just roll over and cave in to what ever management offers you during negotiations. It is just plain foolish to go on strike right? The days of airline pilots going on strike for a new contract are over, we should learn to live with the "New Pilot Profession". We should be happy they let us fly their CRJ’s for $22 an hour right d’angelo? At least you are building your mulit-engine jet time.

Don't forget you guys, AAWH made over 70 million last year. They are doing just fine. Our 10.5% raise took less than 1% off their bottom line. If you really think parking the -200s has anything to do with our strike you are very naive.

Remember, no one has received a furlough notice as of yet. I am sure it is coming, but I can guarantee there will be another BIG announcement prior to the end of the summer.

 

[bman]

Fodder,

That's not what I said. But you guys were playing a hand of poker with your cards facing the wrong way. I said it then and will say it now the lack of leverage on the Polar side was astounding. I'm mean "struck" freight? So now that's how strikes work? If AA goes on strike and the pax are rebooked by their travel agents, themselves, or original carrier on Continental. CO guys shouldn't fly their airplanes? Better yet use Comar and Delta since they are similarly held by the same company.

I don't have to tell you why it wouldn't work there casue you've seen the result here.

I'm saying when UAL had their famous strike and got those enourmous pay increases they had LEVERAGE!!!

I'm saying a 10.5% pay raise and no other changes (to a fairly well written contract)for a two year duration ain't a reason to walk the line.

I'm saying this was the plan B if no merged carrier and combi contract!

What big announcement do you think is coming?! Do you think they are prettying you guys up for some kind of sale?

By the by on a personal note do you have something secured or are you just gonna hang out till the smoke clears.

Regards
Bman

 

[D'Angelo]

Striking in todays world simply isnt logical. "Standing up" or "holding the line" no longer does any good. Management has figured out they no longer have to be held hostage by unions. The old days were wonderful. You could just threaten strike and get all these raises and lead a lavish lifestyle. The secrets out. Striking is no longer worth it. Theres always someone else ready to do it for less. No one will fly struck work however passengers can be rebooked, cargo can be rebooked. The days of holding anyone hostage are gone. Thats why arbitration is a good idea. If the company isnt losing money I highly doubt paycuts would be assigned. The arbitrator would determine what the fairest possible deal is using logic and reason. Unions always tend to "shoot for the moon" and waste valuable negotiating time. With arbitration screw the negotiations the union shows their side, management shows their side and you have a deal. I can guarantee there wont be a paycut if the company is making money. Going on strike is pointless in todays world. Its time to revamp the RLA! It served its purpose however its definately showing its age!