Massive furloughs at Polar

[weasel_lips]

Deleted!

 

[Whale Rider]

Flight schedule is still showing the entire Polar Classic Fleet flying well into September. Hmmm....

 

[Classicdriver]

Not exactly true Classicdriver, 1 Polaroid went there in Feb and 2 in March... Good timing I might add

I stand corrected. He must have spoken with forked tongue. This was an FE kind of Focus guy? He spoke in general terms. Could the three whose timing is awesome be pilots?

 

[heilhaavir]

Not a problem at all Classicdriver and yes all pilots.

 

[Serrano]

April 18, 2006

Unfortunately, given the Crew inefficiencies, it is just not economically viable to operate a Classic fleet of this size. Faced with this reality, we are left with no choice but to park the Polar Classic fleet effective July 1.


I know this raises the question of why Polar can efficiently operate a –400 fleet of only five aircraft, yet we can’t be as Crew efficient with the Classics. The answer lies in the fact that the -400s are used exclusively for scheduled service, where we can control the use of the aircraft and we can do so in a manner that ensures efficient Crew utilization. This is not the case with the Classic, however, where the ad hoc nature of the flying in which we place these aircraft makes them very Crew inefficient.


We have a successful airline and we are going to continue to have a successful airline going forward…. but only if we face up to the realities of our business and deal with the hard challenges as they occur, not ignore them and find ourselves in the position where any action we might take is too late to make a difference.

.

I get it!!! It's the fault of the crews that they have a successful airline and have to get furloughed!!!

Perfectly clear to me...going backward to go forward...

I wish you guys the best of luck-

 

[bman]

Serrano,

I think what the MAN was refering to was the fact that they cannot ddeal with the fact that Polar actually has a contract that means something and doesn't allow them to compete effectively in the Ad Hoc side of the Biz. He's probably correct since all the new start ups basically have no work rules besides those that the FAA mandates! Which is probably only one step below how they view the Atlas contract.

Someone once said that no matter how you feel about unions the companies that have them deserve them!

All of the startups will have them if they survive that long.

MY.02 your milage may vary.
Bman

 

[cfire]

Yep,

Atlas/Polar scheduling can't come to grips with the Polar CBA to schedule efficiently according to contract and cargo demand. Company has to pay for changes at Polar versus Atlas contract scheduling works. AAWW loves the Atlas contract. Plenty of wholes in it. We had the great support of Polar and the replacement crew leasing company AACS in Stansted U.K. to thank for a lot of what we all (Polar and Atlas) now have to live with.

Take a look at the flashplayer slide show AT THIS WEB SITE that was shown to the ALPA Executive Board a couple of months back. Give's you kind of a run down on the true relationship/events between Polar and Atlas.

So while Polar was taking a dump on Atlas crews in a number of ways, they were also taking a dump on themselves in the end. You'll never get them to admit that though.

Judging from reports in the field, a number of Polar guys have been taking it very personal on their furlough notice and have been getting a verbally abusive to the Atlas guys. Vibes from the company have been indicating that they may turn a number of those furloughs into terminations for harassment. That looks great on a resume. It's not rocket science to figure out who was where on a certain date. With crew pictures in digital format, it doesn't take long finding the offenders.

I'm certain someone will have too many bottles of liquid courage at a joint Polar/Atlas hotel bar and end up getting their teeth pulled out of someone elses knuckles.

My real reason for posting:

Talked to the Atlas guy that was running the jobs committee at Council 072. He said he would probably help if required to by his MEC, but he said he would be pulling his personal public jobs page down because of Polars behaviour pre and post Polar strike to Atlas crews. Said he would be advising the current employment recruiters he communicates with of the situation also. I'm guessing from his tone that he won't be recommending Polar crewmembers to them. I don't think that will prevent Polar guys from being hired, but that may make them the last ones to get interviewed.

Kind of a shame. Not only do the Polar guys loose out on a resource, but also the general pilot population that used his site. Site was up to over 65000 hits from when it started back in 2001 he said.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Can't We All Get Along?

I really don't get where all the hostilities towards the Atlas crewmembers come from? Everytime something doesn't go well for the Polaroids, they attack the Atlas crews, look at that mess of a strike they had, it was a Polar strike, not Atlas, but they harrassed only the Atlas pilots, none of the other ALPA carriers (NWA, UAL, FedEx, or UPS) were harrassed going into hotels or for flying THEIR own freight. Whenever I come across a Polar crew somewhere in the world, I always try to be professional and say hello, but most of the time the response I get from them are usually a scowl or dirty looks, so now my attitude is F*** You too! If they really want to teach management a lesson , why don't they do us all a favour and go on strike again, over the announced fleet reduction and furlough!

I really feel bad for the couple of friends of mine that fly for Polar, and will support those individuals in their endeavours after Polar. I don't want this to be a Polar bashing thread, but I just get fed up with the anger towards us Atlas Pilots, they make it look like we're the bad guys, but it's management that makes the big decisions, not us!

 

[mar]

The old saw

I really don't get where all the hostilities towards the Atlas crewmembers come from? Everytime something doesn't go well for the Polaroids, they attack the Atlas crews, ...

Misery loves company.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

My real reason for posting:

Talked to the Atlas guy that was running the jobs committee at Council 072. He said he would probably help if required to by his MEC, but he said he would be pulling his public jobs page down because of Polars behaviour pre and post Polar strike to Atlas crews. Said he would be advising the current employment recruiters of the situation also. I'm guessing from his tone that he won't be reccommending Polar crewmembers to them.

Kind of a shame. Not only the Polar guys loose out on a resource, but also the general pilot population that used his site. Site was up to over 65000 hits from when it started back in 2001 he said.

Some info for your High Horseness:

Other than the engineers, most of the Polar guys furloughed will be the ones hired by Atlas and trained in joint classes with Atlas crew members. Polar and Atlas crews trained together for the first two weeks until they were split off.

Additionally nobody knew where they were going (Polar/Atlas) until called for class dates. For the past couple of years the interview was for BOTH airlines conducted by BOTH CP's.

Also I would estimate that around 60 to 70% are furloughees from major carriers. (My class represented AA,UAL,DAL,USAir, alone) Your genorosity torward pilots that were not even on the property during your beef with Polar at your last contract is greatly appreciated. Maybe we can return the favor once we are recalled to our respective majors.

 

[B-atch]

"Also I would estimate that around 60 to 70% are furloughees from major carriers. (My class represented AA,UAL,DAL,USAir, alone) Your genorosity torward pilots that were not even on the property during your beef with Polar at your last contract is greatly appreciated. Maybe we can return the favor once we are recalled to our respective majors."[/quote]


Very well said...Some people forget how small this world actually is.

 

[furloughfodder]

kerosene,

I don't think we have to worry about returning any favors. Atlas has destroyed their reputation over the last year, they are considered the S word by everyone I know at the Majors, including my buds at FedEx who walked the line with us and witnessed Atlas guys flipping off Polariods on the picketline during the strike as they crossed our lines.

Not to mention there are quite a few Atlas guys on the master scab list for prior offenses.

Why do you think they come on this board and continue to bring up the strike over and over again, and keep posting links to that silly flash website? It is all a desperate (albiet too late) attempt to get back in the good graces of the rest of the Airline community.

Polar went on strike, and got a pay raise, DESPITE the Atlas crews. Polar is the ONLY ALPA pilot group to go on strike AND get a raise in the last 4 years.

What has Atlas done in the last few years? You can try to blame Polar for your crappy contract all day long, but in the end, it is your group that signed off on it...quickly I might add.

By the way, none of this is directed at anyone hired at Atlas in the last 2 years...and I would do anything I could to help any of those guys in the future...and I don't think anyone really cares about your Jobs committe guy and his 65,000 web hits.

 

[cfire]

Some info for your High Horseness:
Other than the engineers, most of the Polar guys furloughed will be the ones hired by Atlas and trained in joint classes with Atlas crew members. Polar and Atlas crews trained together for the first two weeks until they were split off.

I'm very familiar with that, I work at Atlas.

Additionally nobody knew where they were going (Polar/Atlas) until called for class dates. For the past couple of years the interview was for BOTH airlines conducted by BOTH CP's.

I Know this too. This does remind me of another thread I read here or on Pprune.org. Once indoc was over, everyone gets split up to Polar or Atlas for company specific training. Reports from the training center reflect that new hires on the Polar side acclimated quickly with their new Polar peers.

Also I would estimate that around 60 to 70% are furloughees from major carriers. (My class represented AA,UAL,DAL,USAir, alone) Your genorosity torward pilots that were not even on the property during your beef with Polar at your last contract is greatly appreciated. Maybe we can return the favor once we are recalled to our respective majors.

You really are new. The beef was instigated and continually reinforced by Polar over and over again long before your hiring to present.

Actually, I'm being unfair. A large number of the Polar group doesn't have a clue of what has actually happened since the purchase of Polar, except what was spun down the non-accountable back room communication chain used by the Polar MEC. I've seen it. Back when we (Atlas and Polar) would actually talk in bars around the world. The "Deer caught in headlights look" was very common when certain subjects were broached.

I'm sorry you got furloughed from the majors and Polar. I've been there too many times myself. Slumming with us has probably been really bad for you. Luckily you didn't have to surrender your major airline seniority number and will depart back for the majors when they recall you.

For some of us that didn't make the majors cut or will, we have to live down here. So we have to make the best of this cr@p pile we can. For most of us, we hit this level and not many statistically go onto the majors percentage wise.

Hopefully the Polar reputation will not stay with you when you are recalled to the majors and the hardest thing to decide will be what kind of Starbucks coffee you will have at the next stop.

In the mean time. Keep believing your MEC. Look where it has gotten you so far.

 

[cfire]

Polar went on strike, and got a pay raise, DESPITE the Atlas crews. Polar is the ONLY ALPA pilot group to go on strike AND get a raise in the last 4 years.

Atlas is the ONLY cargo airline in ALPA history to conduct a job action in support of another cargo carrier. If you prove me wrong, let me know with the facts so that I can correct the ALPA National guy that told me this.

What has Atlas done in the last few years? You can try to blame Polar for your crappy contract all day long, but in the end, it is your group that signed off on it...quickly I might add.

Got me there. I guess we should have tested the Polar MEC willingness to scab us. Verifiable by a third party to Atlas/Polar BTW.

As far as signing off. If I remember correctly, MEC Bobb Henderson tried signing off on your most recent one 36 hours into the cooling off period. Cato saw that he had him over a barrell and required more. That pretty much set the stage for the rest of your screw ups. Had to work uphill just to get back what was on the table before the cooling off.

By the way, none of this is directed at anyone hired at Atlas in the last 2 years...and I would do anything I could to help any of those guys in the future...

I would hope the guys hired in the last two years treat that as most commitments given by Polar, as an empty one.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I'm very familiar with that, I work at Atlas.
I Know this too. This does remind me of another thread I read here or on Pprune.org. Once indoc was over, everyone gets split up to Polar or Atlas for company specific training. Reports from the training center reflect that new hires on the Polar side acclimated quickly with their new Polar peers.
You really are new. The beef was instigated and continually reinforced by Polar over and over again long before your hiring to present.

Actually, I'm being unfair. A large number of the Polar group doesn't have a clue of what has actually happened since the purchase of Polar, except what was spun down the non-accountable back room communication chain used by the Polar MEC. I've seen it. Back when we (Atlas and Polar) would actually talk in bars around the world. The "Deer caught in headlights look" was very common when certain subjects were broached.

I'm sorry you got furloughed from the majors and Polar. I've been there too many times myself. Slumming with us has probably been really bad for you. Luckily you didn't have to surrender your major airline seniority number and will depart back for the majors when they recall you.

For some of us that didn't make the majors cut or will, we have to live down here. So we have to make the best of this cr@p pile we can. For most of us, we hit this level and not many statistically go onto the majors percentage wise.

Hopefully the Polar reputation will not stay with you when you are recalled to the majors and the hardest thing to decide will be what kind of Starbucks coffee you will have at the next stop.

In the mean time. Keep believing your MEC. Look where it has gotten you so far.

You really don't have a clue what the hell I was talking about do you? You are so juiced up over the demise of Polar and your own personal little war between the senior members of the two groups that you can no longer think beyond that.

As far as Polar and Atlas not speaking around the world......I guess you are "the" guy that sits by himself in ICN and RMS and the rest of the joint hotels huh? The rest of us (Polar and Atlas) talk all the time, Last trip out a large group (about 8) of both Polar and Atlas guys took it upon ourselves to make sure we put a hurting on the beverage stash of a local establishment.

I truly feel sorry for you, If you take a corporate merger and let it consume you to the point of taking pride in the fact that pilots are being furloughed and that an Atlas Pilot would intentionally try to cause those furloughees to not be able to find work....you must have a miserable life indeed.

Good luck to you in your personal purgatory, maybe you will see me out on the road before my furlough date, I'll be one of the ones not sitting by myself in the corner afraid to speak to a guy in an AAWWH leather jacket for fear that he may be an evil Polar/Atlas pilot.

As far as my time here? It has been great, I had planned on staying if the merger went with no problems. But as it stands I guess it is off to the next airplane. It has been fun though!

Concerning your cr#p pile statement.......maybe you should actually talk to a Polar guy sometime and find out about their contract that they struck for, I find it compares with a major's contract fairly well considering the unscheduled nature of the flying. After all, you guys are up to bat this year in the contract department.

I will very much miss flying for Polar when the axe comes. Sorry if that disturbs you.

 

[furloughfodder]

For some of us that didn't make the majors cut or will, we have to live down here. So we have to make the best of this cr@p pile we can. For most of us, we hit this level and not many statistically go onto the majors percentage wise.

Hmmm, wonder why?

 

[cfire]

Hmmm, wonder why?

Your one to speak. Where do you work, Polar? We already new that though.

Looks like we have both risen to our level of incompetence aviation wise.

You really don't have a clue what the hell I was talking about do you? You are so juiced up over the demise of Polar and your own personal little war between the senior members of the two groups that you can no longer think beyond that.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking about merger or seniortiy. Obviously this is your concern and not mine. Maybe you are just that new here or focused on your own immediate problem.

To catch you up on events:

My most recent concern is about the listing of my fellow pilots to the world by the Polar MEC (or I should say by his appointee) as scabs by a public release of a non-ALPA sanctioned list Polar came up with. They even filed Article 8 charges and did it wrong. The board wouldn't hear the charges. Now they can't even clear their name because the Polar MEC can't count the number of days that have gone by so that the board would hear the cases. Maybe the Polar MEC intended that. I'll save that for lawsuit being filed by that group. That's what happens when you do a sympathy work action for Polar. Help and then get bitten (again) for your efforts. Of course you can get that run down at AT THIS WEB SITE to see just what your group has done.

On another note, I don't remember one sympathetic word from any Polar crewmember at the bars or on any of the boards over Atlas furloughs that benefited Polar with transfered A/C. I do remember a lot of "hey, I'm going to upgrade" and "I'm moving up the list fast now" from Polar guys. I do remember not one furloughed Atlas guy getting hired at Polar during that time and Robin H. (your neg. chairman) changing a cross over agreement after it was negotiated between us.

So when you spout that Polar has been unfairly and harshly treated, maybe you should look back at your group's own actions.

Good luck to you in your personal purgatory, maybe you will see me out on the road before my furlough date, I'll be one of the ones not sitting by myself in the corner afraid to speak to a guy in an AAWWH leather jacket for fear that he may be an evil Polar/Atlas pilot.

Actually I'm one of the guys at the bar talking and listening to the latest BS your guys have been told within your councils communications channel. I don't hide anywhere and Polar crewmembers definitely don't scare me. I have never had a problem expressing my opinion face to face. Unfortunately, I do have to sit in my room doing union work a lot more than I would like. Answering emails and compiIing info submitted from our group in the field. I have Polar's MEC/group and Atlas Management to thank for that.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Your one to speak. Where do you work, Polar? We already new that though.

Looks like we have both risen to our level of incompetence aviation wise.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking about merger or seniortiy. Obviously this is your concern and not mine. Maybe you are just that new here or focused on your own immediate problem.

To catch you up on events:

My most recent concern is about the listing of my fellow pilots to the world by the Polar MEC (or I should say by his appointee) as scabs by a public release of a non-ALPA sanctioned list Polar came up with. They even filed Article 8 charges and did it wrong. The board wouldn't hear the charges. Now they can't even clear their name because the Polar MEC can't count the number of days that have gone by so that the board would hear the cases. Maybe the Polar MEC intended that. I'll save that for lawsuit being filed by that group. That's what happens when you do a sympathy work action for Polar. Help and then get bitten (again) for your efforts. Of course you can get that run down at AT THIS WEB SITE to see just what your group has done.

On another note, I don't remember one sympathetic word from any Polar crewmember at the bars or on any of the boards over Atlas furloughs that benefited Polar with transfered A/C. I do remember a lot of "hey, I'm going to upgrade" and "I'm moving up the list fast now" from Polar guys. I do remember not one furloughed Atlas guy getting hired at Polar during that time and Robin H. (your neg. chairman) changing a cross over agreement after it was negotiated between us.

So when you spout that Polar has been unfairly and harshly treated, maybe you should look back at your group's own actions.

Actually I'm one of the guys at the bar talking and listening to the latest BS your guys have been told within your councils communications channel. I don't hide anywhere and Polar crewmembers definitely don't scare me. I have never had a problem expressing my opinion face to face. Unfortunately, I do have to sit in my room doing union work a lot more than I would like. Answering emails and compiIing info submitted from our group in the field. I have Polar's MEC/group and Atlas Management to thank for that.

So basically, Atlas MEC has a beef with the Polar MEC about things that occured in 2001. How does that have any bearing on a group of 100 pilots....50+ of who were not eligible to vote during the strike period (and were fired during that time), and another 40 or so that were not on property when the events that you bring up happened? In effect you are saying..."that dirty SOB MEC, they screwed me, I screwed them, we all screwed each other so lets take it out on a group of junior pilots that were hired by Atlas and had nothing to do with it! Yeah, that will teach them! Lets cut off a resource that some may need to feed their families.

Up until now I never held any malice torward any Atlas crewmember, after all, mgmt. rarely if ever asks our opinion on anything they do. But since you have stated that you are a member of the Atlas MEC AND that you advocate the intentional damaging of furloughed ALPA members chances at employment to further your own bias and vindictive nature, well, that truly is pathetic. One of my Atlas classmates recently commented to me about the quality of Captians he flew with over there, "Sure are more than our fair share of pr%#ks over here" At the time I thought nothing of it..........Laughed it off as normal airline stuff, a bad month with one of the 1% that every airline has.....beginning to think differently now thanks to you. Learn something new every day huh?

You have my condolances, You have many many more problems in life than I do, and I am the one getting furloughed.

 

[Classicdriver]

Kerosene, actually, its gotten out of control to the point where it's become personal. The two MEC's don't like each other, period. There is no trust there. They then spread that downhill to those that will listen. Remember, AAWH does not have the "Spin" market cornered. As bitter as things are, I can see "Bobb" turning down an offer of help from anyone having to do with Atlas. He's got the average Polaroid blaming Atlas for the Polar furloughs. Please explain that one to me, in simple terms, please.

The bad news is, the junior guy always pays first. The good news, they'll be senior at the next airline.

I don't think cfire is a member of the MEC, just a very busy hardworking worker bee. He's seen all the things that have gone on in the first person. I've spoken to more than a few involved with trying to help Polar in different situations, and each time they got burned, and swore to never do it again.

You have your one reason to change attitude toward Atlas guys, my list is longer. I held out until the SBC list. That did it for me. My grudge is not with the Polaroids out there, its with the Polar MEC's tactics.

If I have any beef with Polaroids, its their lack of involvement. I just spoke to an FE (Friday) who knew nothing about the furloughs, then gave me crap for being informed. Something about being attached to Purchase with an umbilical cord. He pleaded complete ignorance of any lists and knew nothing of the actions by "Bobb" in the cooling off period and didn't care to know. This is not the first time I've run into this. It's a little scary.

Lastly, its the family's that really suffer thru the furloughs. I'm sorry it came to people losing their jobs. But, what was the intent of the section 8 filings by the Polar SBC? Dismissals. Fired. A little worst than furlough. They went after 160 Atlas pilots, most VERY innocent.

Hopefully you took the signals sent out by AAHW as a warning and got the resume up to date. The Polar MEC has said over and over again that it couldn't happen, even with a multitude of crews sitting at home and in hotels. Well it's happen.

 

[B-atch]

AHHH....Perhaps if Polar reclaims the 200 or more flights a month that Atlas operates (for us) as an "alliance" then we would-not have to furlough!!!