Massive furloughs at Polar

[cfire]

Must have been another link to the 'Caputo the Hut for President' website.

I wouldn't call it a Caputo for President site.

He just seemed to have a befitting message at the right time for the site as I was gathering more proof for my varied BB arguments. I'm just sorry the Slide show that was given to the ALPA Executive Board is so long. Judging from the number of things Polar has done, it has to be. Polar guys can't make it past the first five slides on what Polar has done and quit reading. It's there not so much for Polar guys as for the remaining part of the industry since the Polar group spends sooo much time bad mouthing Atlas to everyone who will listen to them.

I would call the site a reminder or conscience of how Polar's MEC and committees like to use everyone they can up and then urinate on them telling them it's raining. Followed by their usual cry for help when things turn against Polar later on.

Remind me again. Just what joint union agreements has Polar actually complied with that wasn't altered later or requested relief from when they were required to live up to it? Just what has Polar done to help any other Union? Bet that's a short list if any. What has Polar done to help their own find jobs with the recent furlough?

Hopefully this will shame your council into doing something other than blaming others. At Atlas, we got pretty good at helping find our guys jobs while Polar and AACS benefited flying our aircraft/routes.

Polar's Haunting Conscience Site



​

 

[D'Angelo]

Fair deal?

Alaska: 28-34% Paycut

Polar: 10.5% Payraise

Any questions?

Alaska: alive and well no furloughs.

Polar: potential 100% paycut for quite a few pilots for who knows how long. All this while senior guys just sit back and say "thats seniority at least ive got mine"

Any questions?

 

[furloughfodder]

bman and dangelo,

Okay, I get it. Just roll over and cave in to what ever management offers you during negotiations. It is just plain foolish to go on strike right? The days of airline pilots going on strike for a new contract are over, we should learn to live with the "New Pilot Profession". We should be happy they let us fly their CRJ’s for $22 an hour right d’angelo? At least you are building your mulit-engine jet time.

Don't forget you guys, AAWH made over 70 million last year. They are doing just fine. Our 10.5% raise took less than 1% off their bottom line. If you really think parking the -200s has anything to do with our strike you are very naive.

Remember, no one has received a furlough notice as of yet. I am sure it is coming, but I can guarantee there will be another BIG announcement prior to the end of the summer.

 

[bman]

Fodder,

That's not what I said. But you guys were playing a hand of poker with your cards facing the wrong way. I said it then and will say it now the lack of leverage on the Polar side was astounding. I'm mean "struck" freight? So now that's how strikes work? If AA goes on strike and the pax are rebooked by their travel agents, themselves, or original carrier on Continental. CO guys shouldn't fly their airplanes? Better yet use Comar and Delta since they are similarly held by the same company.

I don't have to tell you why it wouldn't work there casue you've seen the result here.

I'm saying when UAL had their famous strike and got those enourmous pay increases they had LEVERAGE!!!

I'm saying a 10.5% pay raise and no other changes (to a fairly well written contract)for a two year duration ain't a reason to walk the line.

I'm saying this was the plan B if no merged carrier and combi contract!

What big announcement do you think is coming?! Do you think they are prettying you guys up for some kind of sale?

By the by on a personal note do you have something secured or are you just gonna hang out till the smoke clears.

Regards
Bman

 

[D'Angelo]

Striking in todays world simply isnt logical. "Standing up" or "holding the line" no longer does any good. Management has figured out they no longer have to be held hostage by unions. The old days were wonderful. You could just threaten strike and get all these raises and lead a lavish lifestyle. The secrets out. Striking is no longer worth it. Theres always someone else ready to do it for less. No one will fly struck work however passengers can be rebooked, cargo can be rebooked. The days of holding anyone hostage are gone. Thats why arbitration is a good idea. If the company isnt losing money I highly doubt paycuts would be assigned. The arbitrator would determine what the fairest possible deal is using logic and reason. Unions always tend to "shoot for the moon" and waste valuable negotiating time. With arbitration screw the negotiations the union shows their side, management shows their side and you have a deal. I can guarantee there wont be a paycut if the company is making money. Going on strike is pointless in todays world. Its time to revamp the RLA! It served its purpose however its definately showing its age!

 

[FearlessFreep]

Unions no longer work in any field of endeavors that can be outsourced, and that is exactly what is happening today. If a corporation cannot deal with a hard headed union they will just take all the operations that they can offshore.

The only protection of our jobs that we have at this point is regulatory in that foreign entities cannot operate airlines internally in the good 'ol US Of A. Open skies and changes in the regulations will change all that and then our jobs will be outsourced.

IMHO it is the full intention of the current presidential administration and all his cronies to sell this country to the highest bidder. W's intention is to outsource everything and keep everyone sh*t stupid (our standard of education has dropped precipitiously) so that they can be forever manipulated.

End Of Rant!

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[UPSer]

Unions no longer work in any field of endeavors that can be outsourced, and that is exactly what is happening today. If a corporation cannot deal with a hard headed union they will just take all the operations that they can offshore.

The only protection of our jobs that we have at this point is regulatory in that foreign entities cannot operate airlines internally in the good 'ol US Of A. Open skies and changes in the regulations will change all that and then our jobs will be outsourced.

IMHO it is the full intention of the current presidential administration and all his cronies to sell this country to the highest bidder. W's intention is to outsource everything and keep everyone sh*t stupid (our standard of education has dropped precipitiously) so that they can be forever manipulated.

End Of Rant!

Good Luck To Us All!

You mean like when UPS outsourced your job flying Menlo in DAY?

 

[mar]

Short and sweet.

End Of Rant!

That was the most beautiful rant I've ever read. It pretty much summed up everything.

 

[FearlessFreep]

UPSer:

You mean like when UPS outsourced your job flying Menlo in DAY?

I don't see how this affects me. I think you are assuming I am someone else.

 

[furloughfodder]

Fearless, I agree. Of course, the US of A isn't the only country to outsource their work.

Atlas Air is 100% outsource work. That's what ACMI is. All Atlas does is fly trips for Emirites, Alitalia, Korean, UPS during the holidays, Polar, Air China, etc. They are the biggest source of outsourced work in the cargo industry. Just like anything, the work goes to the cheapest bidder. Why do you think there is so much animosity towards Atlas around the world?

In fact, maybe some Atlas guy can put together a slide show on this. I am sure we would all love to see it.

 

[cfire]

Just like anything, the work goes to the cheapest bidder. Why do you think there is so much animosity towards Atlas around the world?

Probably because Polar's MEC has encourage their Committee members and membership to bad mouth and lie about Atlas on past events to defray the blame from the Polar MEC on a number of mistakes they made. Just refer to a recent page on Pprune CLICK HERE. The last few postings catch another lying Polar crewmember or someone posing as such. Hard to say which he is. We'll have to ask furloughfodder who he is.

In fact, maybe some Atlas guy can put together a slide show on this. I am sure we would all love to see it.

The slide show you refer to was presented to the ALPA Executive Board. So I would say it was truthful and verifiable just to keep from being sued. That doesn't keep the Polar guys from continually lying like on the forementioned link though. It only would provide the facts/truth to the non-Polar community.

If the Polar MEC & Committees had any balls and were not scared to have the truth exposed to their membership they would file Article 8 charges or a lawsuit against the Atlas MEC. That not being the case, Polar's MEC uses their membership and Committee members like furloughfodder to spread hate is just as good and doesn't expose the Polar MEC to their own membership or litigation.

The Site Furloughfodder is Referring to.
​

 

[cfire]

On another note closer to the thread

I was just sent this by a guy who got it from Air Cargo World. May have been posted before, but I have heard a rumor the Polar MEC has been saying to their membership that the furlough isn't going to happen.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Polar Air to Retire Oldest 747s[/FONT]
Polar Air Cargo will stop using six of its older-model "Classic" 747 freighters by July 1, leaving it operating a fleet of more efficient 747-400s.
Alan Caminiti, spokesman for parent Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings that also owns the Atlas Air cargo airline, said Polar "will cease flying" its three 747-200s, a 747-300 and a 747-100, all of which are now used for charter business.
A fourth -200 model in the Polar fleet, he said, is to be sold.
In its April 13 earnings report and related comments, company officials said they were moving away from reliance on the -200s, saying market conditions were weakening for that type of plane amid lots of competition and its higher operating costs.
The company sold one of its 747-200s on April 7, and said it might also speed up the retirement of older aircraft this year.
Because they carry less fuel as well as cargo, the older planes require an extra fueling stop on long flights compared with a 747-400, and use three-person flight crews instead of two in the -400 model.
Polar currently operates 11 aircraft in all, he said, including five 747-400s. Caminiti said when Polar grounds the Classics it will also pick up one more -400 model from Atlas, leaving it with six -400s.
In all, Atlas Air Worldwide has 41 of the jumbo jet freighters and boasts of having the world's largest 747 freighter fleet. That total includes 20 of the -400s, 19 model -200s and one each of the -100 and -300 models.
The Polar unit operates the only scheduled cargo service for the company, mainly serving large freight forwarders. But Caminiti said the fleet changes "should have no impact on Polar scheduled service reliability."
The Classics that Polar is parking this summer have all been used in charters or for extra scheduled service, he said, and "all such flying can and will be covered with Atlas capacity."
John D. Boyd