Make The Call People

[SkiFishFly]

Obviously the guys that were smart enough set themselves up and don't need to work till they die and yet your type.... the inept.... will continue to lobby congress to change the laws again and again till the retirement age is 75 or 80 cause you're too much of a retard to save and invest wisely.

Hope you and your type, trying to f*&k the junior guys, choke on your turkeys this year....

Such wonderful and cheerful sentiments. You are such a mature individual to debate with.

I am pretty well set. Only because I made some good choices and was blessed with a considerable bit of luck. I don't have to work in this industry and I certainly don't think I'll have to work beyond 60.
I do however support the change to age 65. I have stated my reasons in previous posts.
If the age in the US is to stay at 60 then the US Government must also ban foreign pilots from working on US soil and in US airspace beyond age 60.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Not me, I'll be retiring at 52.

No reason to make everybody else retire so young if they don't want to.

Well, that's a great attitude!

 

[The Prussian]

The Prussian works for the highest paying narrow-body operator in the country. He has no excuse for not having his financial house in order.

And...did he allude to his particular situation in one way or the other???

 

[Nindiri]

Well, that's a great attitude!

hehe It's all about me.

Then again, that's the same attitude held by most of the "make these geezers get out of the way so I can upgrade faster" crowd. Difference in my case is, I'm not trying to tell everyone else how to live their life.

 

[The Prussian]

Go ahead PCL...You tell me where you think I should be...tell me when you think I need to retire....

 

[PCL_128]

Go ahead PCL...tell me where you think I should be...Tell me when you think I need to retire....

You need to retire at the age you've always known you'd have to retire at from the beginning of your career: 60. If you want to change the age, then that's fine......as long as it doesn't apply to current 121 pilots and only applies to pilots who receive their ATP after the changing of the reg. You knew the rules when you started playing the game.

 

[The Prussian]

You need to retire at the age you've always known you'd have to retire at from the beginning of your career: 60. If you want to change the age, then that's fine......as long as it doesn't apply to current 121 pilots and only applies to pilots who receive their ATP after the changing of the reg. You knew the rules when you started playing the game.

I've heard that answer many times before, and expected it. But let's take this a step further.
So...retirement has nothing to do with personal finances or qualifications, and has everything to do with advancement and promotions of those from below? Is that not touching on the very essence of age discrimination???

 

[PCL_128]

I've heard that answer many times before, and expected it. But let's take this a step further.
So...retirement has nothing to do with personal finances or qualifications, and has everything to do with advancement and promotions of those from below? Is that not touching on the very essence of age discrimination???

Your personal finances are your problem, and if you can't get your financial house in order by the time you turn 60, then you aren't going to have it in order by the time you turn 65, or 85 for that matter.

As for age discrimination, I really don't care. As I said, you knew the rules when you got into this career. If you didn't like them, you should have gone into corporate aviation where age isn't an issue. Trying to change the rules and negatively affect the careers of everyone below you is unacceptable.

And for the record, I really gain or lose nothing with age-60 or 65. Seniority at my carrier is driven far more by growth than retirements, and changing the age limit would only delay my upgrade by a few months, if at all. For me, this isn't about my personal career advancement. This is about a bunch of greedy geezers trying to screw over the junior guys, yet again, in order to benefit themselves. I've had enough of it.

 

[The Prussian]

Have a Happy Thanksgiving, and BTW, I kinda like Ron Paul.

 

[blzr]

One of the grat truisms of all time is, and I quote; "if voting really changed things, the would not let you do it".

 

[Networ-King]

Such wonderful and cheerful sentiments. You are such a mature individual to debate with.

I am pretty well set. Only because I made some good choices and was blessed with a considerable bit of luck. I don't have to work in this industry and I certainly don't think I'll have to work beyond 60.
I do however support the change to age 65. I have stated my reasons in previous posts.
If the age in the US is to stay at 60 then the US Government must also ban foreign pilots from working on US soil and in US airspace beyond age 60.

Ha....

Sorry if Im not politically correct for you on FI, but enough is enough. I personally don't want to work till Im 65 years old and who freaking knows what kind of penalties there will be with retiring early. Bottom line is that the "majority" of the pro 65ers are financial retards. Making over 200K a year and living paycheck to paycheck.... if that doesn't raise the red flag then nothing will... so now what? Oh lets lobby congress to change the retirement age.... screw the junior guys... I mean, I was junior once right?..... give me a freaking break....

debate this sh!t all you want, politically correct or not, but turn 60 and get the f&^K out of the way. You wanna fly till you drop... FINE.... Go do contract work overseas and or fly 135. I could give a rats arse what companies overseas do with their old gimps. This has been the rule since day one and should remain in tact.

Ps. I take back my comment on you old geezers choking on your turkeys this year.....


I hope its the turkey bones that actually get you to your final retirement spot......

 

[Nindiri]

I personally don't want to work till Im 65 years old and who freaking knows what kind of penalties there will be with retiring early.

That's a pretty crappy contract if your employer can just arbitrarily change your retirement.

 

[waveflyer]

Just to be fair-- it's been the rule since everyone legal to fly today has been in the game- but it wasn't the rule from day one. ALPA was against it when it first happened. And for good reason-- It was a big scam to chop off the most expensive, least productive part of the pilot group.

Bottom line-- how productive do you think 60-65ers are going to be? I tell you what- it's going to happen-- and i hope every one of them calls in sick a trip a month, vacation for another- and drops one b/c they don't feel like it-- So unless they're dumb enough to donate their sick and vacation youre talking about 2 trips a month at topped out pay. That doesnt seem too bad- or that it'll affect me as a young guy THAT much--

Pilot's as a whole are terrible in dealing with change.

 

[SonicPig]

I for one know a captain who was forced to retire at 60, guess what? No medical coverage, and his regional career and no pension (we should all be in the no pension club) made him search for a career for 5 years. So now he finds himself driving a truck in northern minnesota to pay the bills. I do not want to have to be forced to do that. So I am all for having our retirement age be 60. More pilots should look beyond the greed of a higher (QUICKER) seniortiy climb with a stalled changed age 60 rule. Yes, thats right, its your short term greed! Can other professionals work to 65? does the government give us benies at 60? No, this age 60 rule was to lower pilot costs and pilots agreed because of great pensions.........we no longer have this.

I was not happy that ALPA fought the change. Especially with euro pilots who were 65 flying in our airspace.

Does he own a car, why is he living is Northern Minnesota?

The Pig.

 

[PCL_128]

Just to be fair-- it's been the rule since everyone legal to fly today has been in the game

And that's all that matters. What the rule was in 1940 is irrelevant to all of us today.

i hope every one of them calls in sick a trip a month, vacation for another- and drops one b/c they don't feel like it--

And because of that, management is going to use it for leverage to further gut our contracts. "All of these geezers aren't flying and are still collecting a full salary. You young guys are going to have to give up something to make up for their lack of productivity." As if we didn't have enough problems.

 

[capt. megadeth]

That's a pretty crappy contract if your employer can just arbitrarily change your retirement.

Well, I guess every airline has a crappy contract because it WILL happen everywhere, it's just a matter of time. As for you....I hope you don't fall flat on your face with your "retire at 52" plans because then I'm sure you'll be singing the same tune as we are.

 

[waveflyer]

Ok- but what's your point PCL?

Does anyone think it's NOT going to happen?

I'm 29- it'll affect me. How about us all recognizing that forces beyond us are pushing for it and getting behind the unions so that it's as much of a good thing as possible.

If i get your points - you're saying that we, as pilots and unions, ARE weak and there's nothing we can do about that, so we should unify, get strong and stop something that might expose that weakness? ? ?

I see a lot of flaming- but i don't see any real point to it.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok- but what's your point PCL?

Does anyone think it's NOT going to happen?

I think it will eventually happen, but I think we can continue to delay it for years to come.

 

[The Prussian]

I think it will eventually happen, but I think we can continue to delay it for years to come.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.."

John Donne...1624

 

[PCL_128]

And how exactly does that apply to my previous statement about delaying the change? Donne's Meditation XVII deals with death, not retirement. Are you attempting to equate the two? Melodramatic much?

 

[Deadalus]

I for one know a captain who was forced to retire at 60, guess what? No medical coverage, and his regional career and no pension (we should all be in the no pension club) made him search for a career for 5 years. So now he finds himself driving a truck in northern minnesota to pay the bills. I do not want to have to be forced to do that.

What's wrong with driving a truck?

 

[Deadalus]

OMG! How about fighting for Medicare to kick in when you retire at 60, instead of trying to work longer? This is the same b.s. that started all this age 65 crap. Management takes all pensions so instead of fighting and suing to get them back from all the greedy little bastards, we try to work longer. MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

And, no Sparky, it's not a greed thing, it's a "I don't want to work my entire life and drop dead at my retirement party" thing. Wake up.

Euro pilots are given a schedule every month instead of bidding like we do. Should we do that too? If they jump off a bridge, should we?

Megadeath for president. If I don't find A better gig like Fed Ex or UPS I don't even want to work to 60 let alone 65. We have guys here that want to work till 65 flying 90 hours a month. If these guys would quite flying 90 hours a month maybe they wouldn't be paying for the previous 2 marriages.

 

[skydash]

And how exactly does that apply to my previous statement about delaying the change? Donne's Meditation XVII deals with death, not retirement. Are you attempting to equate the two? Melodramatic much?

Your argument went out the door when we started letting foreign carriers fly here with over 60 pilots.No matter what you say,you simply can't allow others to do what you won't allow your own(tax paying) citizens to do as well.That IS age discrimination...plain and simple(as well as a civil rights concern).

 

[luckytohaveajob]

American standards are inferior to some foreign standards in many ways.

Take Japanese beef. The Japanese won't even consider importing American beef because it is inferior. Our USDA, EPA, FDA, etc have many inferior standards.

So the fact that we have to meet international standards has nothing to do with age discrimination.

America is trying to align some of its rules to international standards so it can give America away.

Once age 65 is allowed, Cabotage is next. Once our pilots can work in Europe and Asia, European and Asian carriers can own American carriers.

I hope you SWA fools are ready to compete with Ryan Air. Because Ryan Air is going to kick your old butts all over Lubbock.

By the way, most Ryan Air Captains are in their twenties.

 

[The Prussian]

By the way, most Ryan Air Captains are in their twenties.

Negative...didn't you know that pilots over there drive from the other side of the cockpit???

 

[Nindiri]

Well, I guess every airline has a crappy contract because it WILL happen everywhere, it's just a matter of time. As for you....I hope you don't fall flat on your face with your "retire at 52" plans because then I'm sure you'll be singing the same tune as we are.

Perhaps you are right and my retirement plans will fall flat. While I've prepared carefully, I'm certainly not foolish enough to think that nothing bad could ever happen to me. All the more reason not to limit my options. I'm also not arrogant enough to tell others that they must retire at 60 no matter what financial misfortune has fallen on them.

 

[waveflyer]

Let's be honest- the reason there is a significant push from pilots to fly beyond 60 is b/c the retirements and pensions were STOLEN from them. Repeat: F***ing STOLEN! Millions from thousands and thousands of pilots. Every PILOT IN THE COUNTRY SHOULD HAVE WALKED OFF THE JOB IN THAT INSTANT THAT THE FIRST PENSION GOT ROBBED. ALPA chose appeasement instead, and now they get in the way of letting a group they represent try to EARN their way back in the black.

I apologize, though i'm for personal responsibility, there are many many pilots who should have been able to count on that pension. Pensions are NOT welfare. They earned it.

 

[PCL_128]

Your argument went out the door when we started letting foreign carriers fly here with over 60 pilots.No matter what you say,you simply can't allow others to do what you won't allow your own(tax paying) citizens to do as well.That IS age discrimination...plain and simple(as well as a civil rights concern).

Ridiculous reasoning. Every country is allowed to file exemptions to the ICAO conventions. Our country has dozens of them.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Megadeath for president.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Perhaps you are right and my retirement plans will fall flat. While I've prepared carefully, I'm certainly not foolish enough to think that nothing bad could ever happen to me. All the more reason not to limit my options. I'm also not arrogant enough to tell others that they must retire at 60 no matter what financial misfortune has fallen on them.

Dude! I could care less if a pilot wants to fly till they croak. BUT.......BUT the problem I see here is that management will exploit it in all over the place in some way, shape or form and eventually ALL OF US will have no choice but to FLY TILL 65. 65 will become the old 60. 60 will become the old 55. We'll all be talking about "the good old days" when you had to retire at 60. The big pushers for it (which the majority are now 55+) will be long dead and gone while all of the rest of us are going to have to "deal with it". It's the same thing as the RJ thing. Guys too good to fly the RJ and look how management pulled the wool over everyone's eyes now. Who's laughing now????? Same thing.....that's my beef with 65.