Mainline USAir undercuts AGAIN!

[Crzipilot]

Just as a little update. I've heard that 10 yr capt rate for the 190 at mainline is going to pay 95.00. Not the best BUT I believe higher than anyone else is paying out there for similar, about 10-20.00 more an hour. So if this what it turns out to be, I'd like to hear from the RJDC guys, how this is undercutting you???? It's not as good as the original 146/f28 rates, BUT with the downward pressure on hourly wages, one would expect as much.

 

[anewunion]

Please, Let Mainline Pilots Fly There Own Aircraft! Let's Bring The Mainline Guys Off The Street, Stop Contracting The Work Out,and Make Some Money.

 

[Crzipilot]

If your not reading the major boards, here's the negotiated pay scale, still to be voted on. Now let me hear about "undercutting" ?


I couldn't get the formatting right, but the numbers should be justified to the right......


US EMB 190 Captain Rates
2006 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 78.57 78.57 78.57 78.57 80.14 80.14 81.74 81.74
2 80.36 80.36 80.36 80.36 81.96 81.96 83.60 83.60
3 82.14 82.14 82.14 82.14 83.79 83.79 85.46 85.46
4 83.96 83.96 83.96 83.96 85.63 85.63 87.35 87.35
5 85.82 85.82 85.82 85.82 87.54 87.54 89.29 89.29
6 87.53 87.53 87.53 87.53 89.28 89.28 91.07 91.07
7 89.29 89.29 89.29 89.29 91.07 91.07 92.90 92.90
8 91.07 91.07 91.07 91.07 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75
9 92.89 92.89 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75 96.64 96.64
10 94.74 94.74 94.74 94.74 96.64 96.64 98.57 98.57
11 96.64 96.64 96.64 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55
12 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55 102.56 102.56


US EMB 190 First Officer Rates

2006 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 41.22 41.22 41.22 41.22 42.05 42.05 42.89 42.89
2 43.72 43.72 43.72 43.72 44.60 44.60 45.49 45.49
3 46.22 46.22 46.22 46.22 47.15 47.15 48.09 48.09
4 48.72 48.72 48.72 48.72 49.70 49.70 50.69 50.69
5 51.13 51.13 51.13 51.13 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20
6 52.16 52.16 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26
7 53.20 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26 55.35 55.35
8 54.26 54.26 55.34 55.34 56.45 56.45
9 55.34 56.45 56.45 57.58 57.58
10 57.58 57.58 58.74 58.74
11 58.73 59.90 59.90
12 61.11 61.11

 

[DiverDriver]

If your not reading the major boards, here's the negotiated pay scale, still to be voted on. Now let me hear about "undercutting" ?

Well, I don't know about undercutting but Air Wisconsin BAE 146 top rate is $111.00. How do you define "undercut"? $99/hr is 89% of AWACs rate. I'd say that's not just a little lower that's a lot lower. But again, what is "undercutting"? They are trying to make a move to save mainline flying with the hopes of getting a higher scale later it seems.

AWAC Management just asked us to negotiate an E-190 rate. We pretty much handed them the 146 rate. Sad to see US Air propose a lower rate than current book on like aircraft (seatwise) instead of just proposing the same rate. I wonder why they thought they had to go so low.

 

[Crzipilot]

Diver Driver,

Uhmmm...you can't really compare year 18 rate with year 12 rate. Compare the same years and this pay scale is about 10.00 more an hour than Air Wisconsin. Thanks, but play again.

 

[surplus1]

If your not reading the major boards, here's the negotiated pay scale, still to be voted on. Now let me hear about "undercutting" ?


I couldn't get the formatting right, but the numbers should be justified to the right......


US EMB 190 Captain Rates
2006 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 78.57 78.57 78.57 78.57 80.14 80.14 81.74 81.74
2 80.36 80.36 80.36 80.36 81.96 81.96 83.60 83.60
3 82.14 82.14 82.14 82.14 83.79 83.79 85.46 85.46
4 83.96 83.96 83.96 83.96 85.63 85.63 87.35 87.35
5 85.82 85.82 85.82 85.82 87.54 87.54 89.29 89.29
6 87.53 87.53 87.53 87.53 89.28 89.28 91.07 91.07
7 89.29 89.29 89.29 89.29 91.07 91.07 92.90 92.90
8 91.07 91.07 91.07 91.07 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75
9 92.89 92.89 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75 96.64 96.64
10 94.74 94.74 94.74 94.74 96.64 96.64 98.57 98.57
11 96.64 96.64 96.64 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55
12 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55 102.56 102.56


US EMB 190 First Officer Rates

2006 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 41.22 41.22 41.22 41.22 42.05 42.05 42.89 42.89
2 43.72 43.72 43.72 43.72 44.60 44.60 45.49 45.49
3 46.22 46.22 46.22 46.22 47.15 47.15 48.09 48.09
4 48.72 48.72 48.72 48.72 49.70 49.70 50.69 50.69
5 51.13 51.13 51.13 51.13 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20
6 52.16 52.16 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26
7 53.20 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26 55.35 55.35
8 54.26 54.26 55.34 55.34 56.45 56.45
9 55.34 56.45 56.45 57.58 57.58
10 57.58 57.58 58.74 58.74
11 58.73 59.90 59.90
12 61.11 61.11

Does this mean you negotiated an 8 year agrrement with a wage freeze for the first four years?


WOW! That sure doesn't do anybody any favors including you.

If that is what you did it actually means that by the time we get to 2011 you will actually have take an additional 12% pay cut IF inflations stays at 3%.

 

[Crzipilot]

Yeah, sure does look that way, It also calls for a section 6 opener if 4 airlines put this model into place and pay higher. So I guess it will depend on you regionals to bring the pay up??? Again, for the current state of wages, That they were able to negotiate approx. 10.00/hr more than other regionals, AND keep it on mainline, I never said the scale was great....but well it's better.

Oh, BTW....how long is your wage freeze for additional airframes?

 

[surplus1]

Yeah, sure does look that way, It also calls for a section 6 opener if 4 airlines put this model into place and pay higher. So I guess it will depend on you regionals to bring the pay up??? Again, for the current state of wages, That they were able to negotiate approx. 10.00/hr more than other regionals, AND keep it on mainline, I never said the scale was great....but well it's better.

Oh, BTW....how long is your wage freeze for additional airframes?

Our longevity freeze runs out in '07 (if the contingencies are met). It froze our '04 scales for 2 years. Doesn't really matter now since we'll be lucky if we survive the superior management of our mainline friends.

Hey, I'm happy you got to keep the airplanes. As for us regionals bringing the pay scales up .... a good idea, but virtually impossible while you majors are bringing them down.

This is how your '06 book rate compares to our '04 (current) book rate. Yours on the left, ours on the right; + = difference in your favor. Do keep in mind that ours is for a CRJ-700 w/70 single class, and yours is for an EMB-190 w/106 single class (a 36 s. dif.) --- the apples aren't quite like the oranges.

AWA190 ----- CMR700 ------ Diff
CA
05 -85.82 ----- 74.94 ------- + 10.88
08 -91.07 ----- 82,12 ------- + 8.85
10 -94.14 ----- 88.86 ------- + 5.28
12 -98.58 ----- 94.43 ------- + 4.14

FO
02 - 43.72 ----- 41.04 ------- + 2.68
05 - 51.13 ----- 44.96 ------- + 6.17
08 - 54.26 ----- 49.27 ------- + 4.99

Note that the $10 you mention occurs in only one instance. We have few CA w/ that longevity in that eqpt. you will likely have most at yr. 5 (unless of course you can fence the U pilots into this machine). This lowers the differential in real dollars to virtually less than nothing.

I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out that the picture is grim, which you probably already know.

Given that our mainline "partner" has managed to take our little airline from most profitable in the industry to bankruptcy in less than 5 years, we have nothing to celebrate.

This trend, even w/o the BK debacle, would force us to reduce our scales substantially anyway and most probably gut the rest of our CBA to match yours.

It's not your fault and I know that. I just have to cry in my beer somewhere and this is as good a place as any.

Looks like our only option will be to "underbid" MESA, which will then underbid us, again. Look for DL to "underbid" you and us, and us to "underbid" them in turn. We've built a jolly cluster Fk for ourselves.

Here's hoping your merger won't result in more furloughs. No doubt you'll be in a hug-fest with the U pilots before it's over. Aren't the "career expectations" just peachy?

I wish you well.

 

[DiverDriver]

Diver Driver,

Uhmmm...you can't really compare year 18 rate with year 12 rate. Compare the same years and this pay scale is about 10.00 more an hour than Air Wisconsin. Thanks, but play again.

Why can't you compare the top rate of each airline? Top rate is top rate. Can you earn more on the E-190 at U with more than 12 years seniority? If you can please explain. I think it's absolutely right to compare the top rate of each scale. It's the most you could earn.

Oh well, I guess my view is just wrong since I've been told "thanks for playing". That's the internet equivalent of "you're an idiot now go away". Wonder who made you the expert?

 

[surfnfly]

I'm sick of all these regional guys saying how good your rates are and that mainline undercut them. Don't forget that at mainline your not gonna be on a E-190 forever. You get to move on to bigger and better paying equipment, now that's the difference between a major and express. At Republic your not gonna see anything over 70 seats. If you want to fly bigger equipment apply to a major and join the competition. It's a hell of alot harder than getting on at a regional where all you need is 600/1 and a pulse.