Mainline USAir undercuts AGAIN!

[FDJ2]

You may thank management, ALPA, your MEC, and YOUR VOTE on the scope clause that allowed the flying to be outsourced in the first place. Nice try, Aristotle.

Oakum_boy, it would have required a change in the AWA PWA to allow outsourcing of the E-190s to low bidders, what AWA did was keep their scope clause intact, something you should support. If all the other ALPA MECs follow suit, the E190 should make a nice mainline jet.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

We are making the same point...

Obviously not a scholarly argument. You think I, as an RJ pilot am responsible for lower pay? We've been trying to raise it every four years. It's all we can do to get a better contract. You don't see pilots asking for lower wages so we can undermine your way of life, do you.

You may thank management, ALPA, your MEC, and YOUR VOTE on the scope clause that allowed the flying to be outsourced in the first place. Nice try, Aristotle.

...The original poster is blaming mainline USAair and others for his low pay. My point is mainline was undercut years ago by contract carriers and now there is competition for the 100-seat market. His complaint is mainline is hurting his career. That's a crock! We all hurt each other at one point or another with rules that were etched out before your or I began to fly. We are dealing with the aftermath. It usually is the argument of who owns the flying between mainline and the regionals that feed mainline.

To blame national carriers for low rates that don't have a feeder liner is a bad argument. Take JB for example. Yes, the E190 rates are low to start, but as B6GUY pointed out, they have a history of going up. They are their own carrier with no issues between mainline and the regional. The JB pilots will make more and have a better career than a regional pilot that blames his/her own working conditions on another unrelated carrier's pay rates.

I am sorry if you weren't able to take my six-figure mainline job to pay off your ERAU student loans. Maybe you could ask Kit Darby for a little help.

Fight your own fight, take responsibility for your own actions, make it better for yourself and others and stop blaming everyone else for the pay and QOL at your own airline. Is that clear or scholarly enough? I won't use the spell check so flame away if it make you feel better!!!

Fly safe and let's just all get along.

 

[FDJ2]

OK, here are the CHQ rates, which are the only ones negotiated with the E190 in mind rather than the BAe or anything else. So let's see the new U rates and JBLU..

Captain Pay Rates 79-99 Seat Jet
Year Oct 1, 2003 Oct 1, 2004 Oct 1, 2005 Oct 1, 2006 Oct 1, 2007
1 $ 58.91 $ 60.38 $ 61.89 $ 63.12 $ 64.39
2 $ 62.37 $ 63.93 $ 65.53 $ 66.84 $ 68.17
3 $ 66.61 $ 68.27 $ 69.98 $ 71.38 $ 72.80
4 $ 68.68 $ 70.40 $ 72.16 $ 73.60 $ 75.07
5 $ 70.79 $ 72.56 $ 74.37 $ 75.86 $ 77.38
6 $ 72.99 $ 74.51 $ 76.69 $ 78.22 $ 79.78
7 $ 75.24 $ 77.12 $ 79.05 $ 80.63 $ 82.24
8 $ 77.57 $ 79.51 $ 81.50 $ 83.13 $ 84.79
9 $ 79.96 $ 81.96 $ 84.01 $ 85.69 $ 87.40
10 $ 82.46 $ 84.52 $ 86.63 $ 88.37 $ 90.13
11 $ 84.99 $ 87.11 $ 89.29 $ 91.08 $ 92.90
12 $ 88.01 $ 90.21 $ 92.47 $ 94.31 $ 96.20
13 $ 90.33 $ 92.59 $ 94.90 $ 96.80 $ 98.74
14 $ 93.13 $ 95.46 $ 97.84 $ 99.80 $ 101.80
15 $ 96.01 $ 98.41 $ 100.87 $ 102.89 $ 104.95
16 $ 98.89 $ 101.36 $ 103.90 $ 105.97 $ 108.09
17 $ 103.90 $ 106.49 $ 108.62 $ 110.79
18 $ 109.15 $ 111.34 $ 113.56
19 $ 114.12 $ 116.41
20 $ 119.32

JBLU CA/FO rates year 1-12 on E190

1. 71/37
2. 72/40
3. 74/42
4. 76/44
5. 77/46
6. 79/47
7. 80/48
8. 82/49
9. 84/50
10.85/51
11.87/52
12.89/53

Midatlantic CA rates on the Ejets range from $60-$93 for years 1-18

F/O rates start at $21 and go up to $37 by the 7th year with no additional raises after that.

I'm not sure what the AWA rates will be.

www.airlinepilotcentral.com

 

[gcsass]

Hey Joe.....

If this thread is based on the E-190 at AWA/Airways thread from the majors board, then it is from the AWA pilot MEC. It also says that the proposed pay scale is going out for a vote.....we'll se if it gets approved.....

 

[Taco Rocket]

I've talked with MidAtlantic guys, and I make more on the Taco Rocket at Mesa than they make on the E170.

It's just a fact....not trying to start a bar brawl here or anything.

So if you tell me they have undercut the E190 I believe it as well. A sad sad day in this industry when we make more than you guys....

 

[michael707767]

I've talked with MidAtlantic guys, and I make more on the Taco Rocket at Mesa than they make on the E170.

So if you tell me they have undercut the E190 I believe it as well. A sad sad day in this industry when we make more than you guys....

so what? A SW 737 captain makes more than a UAL 747 captain. These are not good times folks. Pilot groups are doing the best they can, and in BK thats not too good. If you guys at the regionals think this pain is not going to trickle down to you, you are kidding yourselves.

 

[LearLove]

It was bad enough when the USAir MEC undercut the regionals.......

Joe

I stopped reading about here.

mainline undercutting the regionals.....

Hello pot, meet Mr. Kettle, did you call him black?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

"So is American Eagle"

When I flew out of JFK, I made it a point to call all AA aircraft "Company" to ATC. I used to call the F100 a "regional jet." I almost miss those days.

 

[Crzipilot]

Ok, Rounded numbers. 146 and the f28 payscales from a mainline carrier. 146 rates were effective '96 and the f28 was '98 i think.


146:
capt f/o

1 113.85 50.77
2 114.94 72.53
3 116.04 74.38
4 117.08 76.34
5 118.13 78.56
....
12 124.52 85.05



F28
Capt FO

2 95.92 47.96
3 96.78 52.26
4 97.69 61.64
5 98.60 63.20
6 99.47 64.85
.....
12 102.19 72.19


anyways, those were the rates when mainline flew those aircraft. In fact at one point alpa offered to fly the rj's at those f28 rates....mgmnt said hell no. Also remember besides the pay number you have some inherent earning increases in the contracts themselves, along with benefits, though most of the benefits are gone. So even though there are payscales for the seat range Management knew they could have it done cheaper at a regional even with a 10-15% profit built in for the fee for departure schedule.

 

[Crzipilot]

I've talked with MidAtlantic guys, and I make more on the Taco Rocket at Mesa than they make on the E170.

It's just a fact....not trying to start a bar brawl here or anything.

So if you tell me they have undercut the E190 I believe it as well. A sad sad day in this industry when we make more than you guys....

You may want to check those pay rates again there taco man. As you may make more due to the fact that the MDA guys all had to start at 1st yr capt rates, and f/o's were able to start at max longevity.

 

[Crzipilot]

Just as a little update. I've heard that 10 yr capt rate for the 190 at mainline is going to pay 95.00. Not the best BUT I believe higher than anyone else is paying out there for similar, about 10-20.00 more an hour. So if this what it turns out to be, I'd like to hear from the RJDC guys, how this is undercutting you???? It's not as good as the original 146/f28 rates, BUT with the downward pressure on hourly wages, one would expect as much.

 

[anewunion]

Please, Let Mainline Pilots Fly There Own Aircraft! Let's Bring The Mainline Guys Off The Street, Stop Contracting The Work Out,and Make Some Money.

 

[Crzipilot]

If your not reading the major boards, here's the negotiated pay scale, still to be voted on. Now let me hear about "undercutting" ?


I couldn't get the formatting right, but the numbers should be justified to the right......


US EMB 190 Captain Rates
2006 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 78.57 78.57 78.57 78.57 80.14 80.14 81.74 81.74
2 80.36 80.36 80.36 80.36 81.96 81.96 83.60 83.60
3 82.14 82.14 82.14 82.14 83.79 83.79 85.46 85.46
4 83.96 83.96 83.96 83.96 85.63 85.63 87.35 87.35
5 85.82 85.82 85.82 85.82 87.54 87.54 89.29 89.29
6 87.53 87.53 87.53 87.53 89.28 89.28 91.07 91.07
7 89.29 89.29 89.29 89.29 91.07 91.07 92.90 92.90
8 91.07 91.07 91.07 91.07 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75
9 92.89 92.89 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75 96.64 96.64
10 94.74 94.74 94.74 94.74 96.64 96.64 98.57 98.57
11 96.64 96.64 96.64 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55
12 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55 102.56 102.56


US EMB 190 First Officer Rates

2006 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 41.22 41.22 41.22 41.22 42.05 42.05 42.89 42.89
2 43.72 43.72 43.72 43.72 44.60 44.60 45.49 45.49
3 46.22 46.22 46.22 46.22 47.15 47.15 48.09 48.09
4 48.72 48.72 48.72 48.72 49.70 49.70 50.69 50.69
5 51.13 51.13 51.13 51.13 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20
6 52.16 52.16 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26
7 53.20 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26 55.35 55.35
8 54.26 54.26 55.34 55.34 56.45 56.45
9 55.34 56.45 56.45 57.58 57.58
10 57.58 57.58 58.74 58.74
11 58.73 59.90 59.90
12 61.11 61.11

 

[DiverDriver]

If your not reading the major boards, here's the negotiated pay scale, still to be voted on. Now let me hear about "undercutting" ?

Well, I don't know about undercutting but Air Wisconsin BAE 146 top rate is $111.00. How do you define "undercut"? $99/hr is 89% of AWACs rate. I'd say that's not just a little lower that's a lot lower. But again, what is "undercutting"? They are trying to make a move to save mainline flying with the hopes of getting a higher scale later it seems.

AWAC Management just asked us to negotiate an E-190 rate. We pretty much handed them the 146 rate. Sad to see US Air propose a lower rate than current book on like aircraft (seatwise) instead of just proposing the same rate. I wonder why they thought they had to go so low.

 

[Crzipilot]

Diver Driver,

Uhmmm...you can't really compare year 18 rate with year 12 rate. Compare the same years and this pay scale is about 10.00 more an hour than Air Wisconsin. Thanks, but play again.