Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Mainline USAir undercuts AGAIN!

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Actually Joe, the mainlines did or do fly aircraft this size. They even have the payscales in their contract. What's the seat capacity of a 146 or f28??? IF they already have the payscales in the contract, that's what they are supposed to be flown under. BUT when management comes up and says....well we know the scales are there, but these guys at (insert regional here) will fly it for X amount, we need some relief on the scales if u want to keep this flying. So where is the undercutting?
 
An undercutter complaining about being undercut!!!

JoeMerchant said:
It was bad enough when the USAir MEC undercut the regionals to capture the E170 aircraft, but now once again, they have done the same with the E190s. Why is it OK for mainline to do this, but not a regional? More ALPA hypocracy folks - time to wake up regional pilots. What is so magical about the title "mainline" if it pays the same or less than the "regional"?

Joe

The regionals have been replacing the flying of mainlaine for years and thousands have been furloughed because of the lower rates that the regionals will except. You my friend have set the standard and are finally feeling the pinch that many, like myself, have already felt.

The regional argument used to be be:

It's not me, I am only flying what the company tells me.

I don't make the payrates, I wish they paid me more (to fly your routes with smaller planes, but big for a regional jet).

And then the ego about it's not an RJ ( because it is so big and shinny - SJS).

I feel your pain, but am not responsible for it. Thanks for your support so many years ago.
 
Preach on brother

FurloughedAgain said:
I'm not undercutting YOU if i'm establishing payrates for an aircraft that YOU DO NOT FLY!!!

You ARE undercutting ME if you're establishing payrates for an aircraft that was designed to replace an aircraft that I currently fly.

But hey, I dont have a dog in this fight. I dont fly for the airlines anymore. I just can't believe that your vision is so clouded that you cant see the bigger E-Jets for what they are -- replacements.

Or, if you prefer - Guppy Killers

That about sums it up!
 
I'll show you mine if you show me yours!!

OK, here are the CHQ rates, which are the only ones negotiated with the E190 in mind rather than the BAe or anything else. So let's see the new U rates and JBLU..

Captain Pay Rates 79-99 Seat Jet
Year Oct 1, 2003 Oct 1, 2004 Oct 1, 2005 Oct 1, 2006 Oct 1, 2007
1 $ 58.91 $ 60.38 $ 61.89 $ 63.12 $ 64.39
2 $ 62.37 $ 63.93 $ 65.53 $ 66.84 $ 68.17
3 $ 66.61 $ 68.27 $ 69.98 $ 71.38 $ 72.80
4 $ 68.68 $ 70.40 $ 72.16 $ 73.60 $ 75.07
5 $ 70.79 $ 72.56 $ 74.37 $ 75.86 $ 77.38
6 $ 72.99 $ 74.51 $ 76.69 $ 78.22 $ 79.78
7 $ 75.24 $ 77.12 $ 79.05 $ 80.63 $ 82.24
8 $ 77.57 $ 79.51 $ 81.50 $ 83.13 $ 84.79
9 $ 79.96 $ 81.96 $ 84.01 $ 85.69 $ 87.40
10 $ 82.46 $ 84.52 $ 86.63 $ 88.37 $ 90.13
11 $ 84.99 $ 87.11 $ 89.29 $ 91.08 $ 92.90
12 $ 88.01 $ 90.21 $ 92.47 $ 94.31 $ 96.20
13 $ 90.33 $ 92.59 $ 94.90 $ 96.80 $ 98.74
14 $ 93.13 $ 95.46 $ 97.84 $ 99.80 $ 101.80
15 $ 96.01 $ 98.41 $ 100.87 $ 102.89 $ 104.95
16 $ 98.89 $ 101.36 $ 103.90 $ 105.97 $ 108.09
17 $ 103.90 $ 106.49 $ 108.62 $ 110.79
18 $ 109.15 $ 111.34 $ 113.56
19 $ 114.12 $ 116.41
20 $ 119.32
 
Jeff Helgeson said:
The regionals have been replacing the flying of mainlaine for years and thousands have been furloughed because of the lower rates that the regionals will except. You my friend have set the standard and are finally feeling the pinch that many, like myself, have already felt.

The regional argument used to be be:

It's not me, I am only flying what the company tells me.

I don't make the payrates, I wish they paid me more (to fly your routes with smaller planes, but big for a regional jet).

And then the ego about it's not an RJ ( because it is so big and shinny - SJS).

I feel your pain, but am not responsible for it. Thanks for your support so many years ago.

Obviously not a scholarly argument. You think I, as an RJ pilot am responsible for lower pay? We've been trying to raise it every four years. It's all we can do to get a better contract. You don't see pilots asking for lower wages so we can undermine your way of life, do you.

You may thank management, ALPA, your MEC, and YOUR VOTE on the scope clause that allowed the flying to be outsourced in the first place. Nice try, Aristotle.
 
After I was furloughed from USAir I flew as a regional F/O for a while. On one trip I flew with a Captain who had paid for his training.

We got to talking about the subject and he told me that he HAD to pay for his training. I reminded him that there were MANY companies in the mid-90s that had no such requirement. Piedmont, Allegheny, American Eagle...

He told me that it was MY fault that he paid for his training because when I was a mainline pilot I didn't direct ALPA to make ending PFT a priority. His checkbook is $10,000 lighter and I still dont understand his argument. A fool and his money...

This CRJ Captain was incapable of taking ownership of his career decisions.

Now we have an airplane with 100 seats. It effectively replaces the Boeing 737, the DC9, the F100 and has the potential in larger varients to replace the A319/320.

You're telling me that you once again have no choice. That it is the mainline pilots who are FORCING you down this road. Why? Are you losing jobs? Are you furloughing? Is someone taking flying that was traditionally yours?

You're wrong. You do have a choice. You have the choice to find the payrates for 100-120 seat equipment at Northwest, Southwest, Delta etc... and tell your management that you refuse to fly that airplane for less than their current book rates.

At least then when you go taxiing by in your shiny new 737 replacement you can do so with a little self respect.
 
Last edited:
Chicken Taco said:
OK, here are the CHQ rates, which are the only ones negotiated with the E190 in mind rather than the BAe or anything else. So let's see the new U rates and JBLU..


I think the top JetBlue rate for the 190 is right at 90 an hour. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Keep in mind though that at JetBlue everything flown above 70 hours is time and a half. So, with most JetBlue guys flying about 85 hours a month, the effective pay rate for their 190 is closer to 97-98 an hour. Not saying that is great, but keep that in mind.
 
FurloughedAgain said:
You do have a choice. You have the choice to find the payrates for 100-120 seat equipment at Northwest, Southwest, Delta etc... and tell your management that you refuse to fly that airplane for less than their current book rates.

That souldn't be too hard. Seeing as how I fly a 70 seat airplane for more than the UsAir 100-seat rate on an agreement 3+ years old.

I'm just super glad that ALPA has made it that much harder for my MEC to negotiate a fair pay rate for my diminiutive CRJ. Thanks ALPA, and I'm glad we got some mainline flying back, albeit at impoverished commuter pay. Way to go.
 
FurloughedAgain said:
He told me that it was MY fault that he paid for his training because when I was a mainline pilot I didn't direct ALPA to make ending PFT a priority. His checkbook is $10,000 lighter and I still dont understand his argument. A fool and his money...

This CRJ Captain was incapable of taking ownership of his career decisions.


Bravo!

I'm so sick of the blame game that's rampant in America now. It's always someone else's fault. Boo fricking hoo.

I thank God that we finally have a President who's willing to say "I take responsibility" regardless of the magnitude of his actual involvement in the situation. Maybe that's a baby step towards setting a good example and finally recapturing some personal responsibility in America.

Off soapbox....
 
The USAirways pilots DO NOT FLY IT EITHER! They undercut the rates to capture this seat range. You can call it whatever you wish, but it is yet another example of the world revolving around the "mainline" pilot.

Considering mainline used to fly the 65-85 seat F-28, it seems to me they are trying to reclaim the seat range captured by the regionals.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top