Looks like CAL/UAL MECs want the RJs

[ASA Captain]

"KNOWING this was wrong"

Get off your high horse and put down that tube of glue you've been sniffing. You gave it up. Remember United + 1%. I do. That's when we got an order of 400 between ASA/CMR. When you guys ended up in bankruptcy or trying to stay out of it you gave up more, by force or by choice.

You could have, at any time in the past, secured brand scope. You could have stomped your feet, made it the #1 issue. But it wasn't.

Don't try to pretend that we or the guy sitting in your right seat had anything to do with this mess.

Look in the mirror.

 

[General Lee]

don't get me wrong there general....let me make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to you that the last thing on my bucket list is to end up flying with the likes of you. Although I realize there are 14000 or so at"delta", the chance of spending hours next to some of you is enough to send me into another career altogether.

Have no fear, I have other opportunities in hand as this industry/economy start back the other way... Can't speak for Joe or others.

That being said, you are dead wrong about your predictions...

I'm just sayin'

Dead wrong, eh? You hope so. The days of RJs ruling the skies are OVER. 50 seaters and smaller are starting to go to the boneyards. The FAA mandates new hiring rules that will be in effect within the next few years, making your part of the industry more expensive (won't be able to find 200 Hour Empty Nipple jet driver wannabees to do it for nothing). New rest and fatigue rules that will again make you less efficient thanks to continuous duty overnights most likely going away and restrictions on number of legs per day. Legacy MECs wanting their flying BACK, something you have NO control over. I'm telling you, it's not looking great for you and Joe Merchant in the future if you stay at the likes of ASA. Jerry in St George can slam his hands on the table all he wants, but that won't make the mainline unions budge at all. It will only get tougher for you guys, but the good thing is you all MAY have the ability to get an interview for the RIGHT seat of a 70 seat RJ at a legacy. But, both you and Joe will probably flunk the psych tests. So, no need to worry about flying with me, and if you are a ramper and look thirsty, I MAY throw you a small Dasani water from the Captain window to the ramp below. But drink it fast, you still have a lot of bags to load.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"KNOWING this was wrong"

Get off your high horse and put down that tube of glue you've been sniffing. You gave it up. Remember United + 1%. I do. That's when we got an order of 400 between ASA/CMR. When you guys ended up in bankruptcy or trying to stay out of it you gave up more, by force or by choice.

You could have, at any time in the past, secured brand scope. You could have stomped your feet, made it the #1 issue. But it wasn't.

Don't try to pretend that we or the guy sitting in your right seat had anything to do with this mess.

Look in the mirror.

A lot of your senior Captains that couldn't get hired anywhere else thanks to DUIs, lack of college, FAA violations, or just laziness (Joe and Ohpleae!) loved the fact that planes were getting bigger, without them having to interview anywhere (they knew they could not or would not be hired anyway). A few years before mainline BKs, there were hardly any jets over 50 seats (excepts some Bae146s at ASA and some Avros at Mesaba), and mostly props. That has now given way to many CR9s, E175s, etc---all thanks to BK. Well, that needs to change, and hopefully it will. The CAL and UAL MECs know they have UAL/CAL in a corner, since management wants a Single Operating Certificate ASAP for Wall St. and their own big bonuses. With the MECs coming out right away demanding change in a public way, I think they mean business, which isn't good for the Regionals.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[buscap]

Very well stated. The Regional guys have watched larger planes being brought to them thanks to legacy bankruptcies, and all the while KNOWING this was wrong. Jerry from SkyWest and the Rev from Republic are counting on Scope dwindling so they can take on the next stage of larger RJs and possibly 100 seaters, but unfortunately for them the legacies are now in an upswing financially, which gives the unions more say and less BK judge intervention. It's time to remold scope boys and girls, and bring some of the 76 seaters over to the mainline side, and keep everything larger, including the 100 seater that will be coming eventually.

To all of those 76 seat Captains looking to extend their free ride to larger planes without the interview at a major to do so, welcome to the real world. (Joe Merchant and Ohplease!) It will be interesting to see how this pans out for the UAL/CAL pilots. If something does stick, it will then happen at the other legacies as well most likely. And someone said that this might have been mentioned already at a newhire class at DL---something about DL wanting to fly 76 seaters at mainline since they already own some of the planes.

Something good out of this could be eventually more jobs for regional guys to interview for at the majors, after the furloughed pilots are offered jobs back first of course! Get the popcorn ready, and again thanks to the CAL/UAL MECs for finally bringing this to the table. Stay strong guys!


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, for once I'm not going to start my rebuttal with an insult, though your eyes are too close together and highly deserving derision.

But I will once again point out the need for you to read my previous posts. My solution will work, it simply is more difficult.

But something we have all ignored in this, is that crew costs are not the only cost gap between mainline and regional. All our costs have been driven down from dispatch, to mechanics, to cabin crews.

All or nothing is the only thing which will keep your career expectations safe. Continental mainline has the tightest scope in the industry and it has gotten them where? You've got to get the 50 seat jets and props on property.

Further-your reference to 76 pilots leads me to believe that is where you draw the line. Clearly a case of shiny jet syndrome. That ailment will eventually lead to another case of regional cancer in the future.

All or nothing, sir. All or nothing.

Have the fortitude to strike for all the flying or quit whining about RJs.:beer:

 

[ASA Captain]

A lot of your senior Captains that couldn't get hired anywhere else thanks to DUIs, lack of college, FAA violations, or just laziness (Joe and Ohpleae!) loved the fact that planes were getting bigger, without them having to interview anywhere (they knew they could not or would not be hired anyway). A few years before mainline BKs, there were hardly any jets over 50 seats (excepts some Bae146s at ASA and some Avros at Mesaba), and mostly props. That has now given way to many CR9s, E175s, etc---all thanks to BK. Well, that needs to change, and hopefully it will. The CAL and UAL MECs know they have UAL/CAL in a corner, since management wants a Single Operating Certificate ASAP for Wall St. and their own big bonuses. With the MECs coming out right away demanding change in a public way, I think they mean business, which isn't good for the Regionals.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What a turd.

You know very well, not that you would bother being intellectually honest, that some stay for other reasons. Some for QOL. Some for family reasons. Some tried and failed, but most are of more character than you will ever be.

I am sure your group has it's own share of DUI, nuts, and plain tools, present company included. To deny this is to show your lack of integrity.

As to the BK being the reasons for all the small jet growth, well that is just as dishonest. I don't know where you work, nor do I care. But every mainline carrier, save SWA, gave up scope for money.

In every bankruptcy case, the judges put you under the gun. They took away your ability to strike, but you got to negotiate for what you got. You chose your poison and scope was not it.

But the aircraft that started this all was well before BK courts. Well before 9/11.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2000/05/01/65188/coming-of-age.html

Let's not try to deny history and point fingers at those who did nothing to start this. Point fingers instead at those who sold out the profession because of greed, arrogance, and shortsightedness.

Now that this falsehood has been put to rest, if you want to scope the RJ, you might want to open your checkbook.

I propose to put your ego aside and work with the regional, oh wait that's right we are a Major thank you, MECs so that it won't cost as much to re-scope the RJ. You obviously don't need to buy them from us, you will have to buy it at the table, but we can help accelerate this and save some of your negotiating chips for other things.

We at ASA have done a good job of supporting the profession, keeping the floor under you as high as we could get it.

United we stand, divided we fall. You should think about it, honestly.

 

[General Lee]

What a turd.

You know very well, not that you would bother being intellectually honest, that some stay for other reasons. Some for QOL. Some for family reasons. Some tried and failed, but most are of more character than you will ever be.

I am sure your group has it's own share of DUI, nuts, and plain tools, present company included. To deny this is to show your lack of integrity.

As to the BK being the reasons for all the small jet growth, well that is just as dishonest. I don't know where you work, nor do I care. But every mainline carrier, save SWA, gave up scope for money.

In every bankruptcy case, the judges put you under the gun. They took away your ability to strike, but you got to negotiate for what you got. You chose your poison and scope was not it.

But the aircraft that started this all was well before BK courts. Well before 9/11.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2000/05/01/65188/coming-of-age.html

Let's not try to deny history and point fingers at those who did nothing to start this. Point fingers instead at those who sold out the profession because of greed, arrogance, and shortsightedness.

Now that this falsehood has been put to rest, if you want to scope the RJ, you might want to open your checkbook.

I propose to put your ego aside and work with the regional, oh wait that's right we are a Major thank you, MECs so that it won't cost as much to re-scope the RJ. You obviously don't need to buy them from us, you will have to buy it at the table, but we can help accelerate this and save some of your negotiating chips for other things.

We at ASA have done a good job of supporting the profession, keeping the floor under you as high as we could get it.

United we stand, divided we fall. You should think about it, honestly.

Some stay for QOL? Really? You mean the top 2 guys? Great. I never said all the RJ growth was due to BKs, but the last couple were, the raising the limit from 70 to 76, and adding more 70 seaters. It was a recipe for disaster, which actually accelerated a BK. High fuel prices and the great deals Regionals got from a wounded legacy (where the legacies paid for all fuel bills, along with a guaranteed profit for the regional), created monster airlines. And, now that is about to change. SkyWest for example now has to throw it's RJs out there at their own expense and hope it works, with no guarantees (to feed Airtran in MKE for example), which is the way it should be ANYWAY. No more special favors for FEED.

As far as ASA goes, they have been our "friend" since 9-11, and I have stated that more than once in the past. But, RJs have not helped this profession at all, and have only brought down wages and good paying jobs. That needs to stop.

As far as bringing out our pocketbooks, how's that again? It will be OUR contract negotiations that will occur in 2012, and the economy and other factors will lead to a large RESTORATION of pay, not a pay "raise." We already had high pay, and that was NOT the reason for the BK. Anything CAL and UAL do will be copied by the other legacies, and better financials and an upswing in this industry means Regionals may take a hit after upcoming negotiations. Remember, the legacy controls the feed, and more than once a legacy has had to pay up to break a contract with a particular feed. That is just the way it goes. We all will be hoping and cheering for CAL/UAL MECs and know they will stay strong, especially since they pubically made this demand ahead of the actual negotiations, which the company wants DONE by year's end. Sounds like leverage to me if those management guys want their bonuses by XMAS.

And, more mainline jobs could result because of all this, and that means some of you can escape your regionals for a better life---which really is a better QOL. That is what you should strive for, not being the top of a regional. It's great ASA kept the bar up as high as you could etc, but now is the time you need to also understand that a lot of people were hurt by the rise of the RJ, and many were furloughed to allow your own people to thrive. It's time to bring them back, and then we can all figure this out to try to make this industry better for all of us. And, the real "turd" is the 50 seat RJ climbing slowly ahead of us through 20,000 ft. Less than 500 FPM? Really? Now that is a turd and you know it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[buscap]

Gosh, I hope you are named after the orange car as opposed to a good soldier who was blinded by loyalty.

 

[sweptback]

General,

I'm not going to get into it with you, but I will say this.

ASA pilots were happily flying turboprops until your pilot group gave them 50-seat jets to fly.

Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 50-seat jets until you gave them 70-seat jets to fly.

Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 70-seat jets until you gave them 76-seat jets... you see the pattern here?

If you want to stop us from flying your passengers, then take back the scope. That's fine with most of us, since all but about the top 30% or so want to move on to greener pastures. But don't blame us for the situation you find yourself in, as your pilot group created it, and we just do as we're told.

That is all.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I'm not going to get into it with you, but I will say this.

ASA pilots were happily flying turboprops until your pilot group gave them 50-seat jets to fly.

Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 50-seat jets until you gave them 70-seat jets to fly.

Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 70-seat jets until you gave them 76-seat jets... you see the pattern here?

If you want to stop us from flying your passengers, then take back the scope. That's fine with most of us, since all but about the top 30% or so want to move on to greener pastures. But don't blame us for the situation you find yourself in, as your pilot group created it, and we just do as we're told.

That is all.

Just remember that some of that was FORCED. We never wanted a huge blast of extra 70 seaters, or 76 seaters that were handed to you from the BK judge. A lot of it does need to go back to mainline. It is great that the UAL/CAL MECs finally have some leverage and the cajones to go for it. Hopefully it will set a good example for the rest of us to follow. But, this idea has been in the mind of management too---after the Colgan crash and resulting examination of training procedures at some regionals etc.. Add to that the new hiring requirements by the FAA, and new fatigue rules that will be added within the next year. After all of that, it is no wonder that legacy managements may be looking at their own changes (as stated to a new hire class at DL a couple weeks ago). Heck, they own some of the planes (CR9s) already.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

GL
I see a lot of posturing by yourself and by other people who have no say as well. When is this revolution scheduled for? It always seems to be some far flung date in the future. So far all I see is the market and management making driving the changes. Yeah, 50 seat aircraft are being parked, but SkyWest has never been busier. When is this sleeping lion of labor going to awaken? The UA/CO merger has many talking about reclaiming flying but I would suggest its a placebo. Makes you feel good, but doesn't do anything for you. I heard the same talk after the NW/Dal merger yet we had as much DAL flying as we could handle. I look forward to ALPA trying to exert itself, last time it did I believe you got unlimited Jsauthirization. Good Luck.

 

[airjackson]

Excuse me while I choke just a bit on the irony of ex-regional and current mainline pilots cheering the (soon to be) end of the regional airlines.

Good luck reclaiming the flying. In my opinion, the best case would be to simply stop the bleeding of larger and larger aircraft being flown by the regionals. Where was the moral outrage when the mainlines were hiring and growing? Anyone? It seems they were too happy to give away the farm (scope) as long as things were stable with the mainline. Sure, BK didn't help but the seeds were sown long before then.

There are plenty of places to point fingers. How hypocritical of a pilot who came up through the regionals, who owes his very career to that experience, to chest-thump about how "evil" that same regional is. Get a freakin grip, or at least shut the F-up and let others with a modicum of integrity make the argument.

 

[General Lee]

GL
I see a lot of posturing by yourself and by other people who have no say as well. When is this revolution scheduled for? It always seems to be some far flung date in the future. So far all I see is the market and management making driving the changes. Yeah, 50 seat aircraft are being parked, but SkyWest has never been busier. When is this sleeping lion of labor going to awaken? The UA/CO merger has many talking about reclaiming flying but I would suggest its a placebo. Makes you feel good, but doesn't do anything for you. I heard the same talk after the NW/Dal merger yet we had as much DAL flying as we could handle. I look forward to ALPA trying to exert itself, last time it did I believe you got unlimited Jsauthirization. Good Luck.

Sorry Russ, it just can't all be done in one day. But, there can be "drop dead" dates on contracts, or those contracts could be broken by the legacy (might be expensive though). When it comes down to it, the management and Wall Street want this merger (UAL/CAL) done, and done smoothly. Lots of bonuses are riding on it on the management side and by the leaders of the hedge funds that are wanting this. Have you seen the market cap of Delta vs United and CAL put together? DAL is twice as large, which made Wall Street look at this and say "Let's get CAL and UAL together for our own big payday." If they want this to be a non USAir Chaos merger, then they will capitulate, and then get their own bonuses and make the MRS. happy. It is called leverage, and the unions put this all out publically as a must have. When DL/NWA were doing the joint contract, oil was at $130 a barrel, IOW terrible timing. Gas at the pump was over $4 a gallon. Do you remember that? Nobody knew what was going to happen. DL/NWA pilots still got a 17% raise (over 4 years) and lots of stock even during that stressful time. How are things going now? Profits are back, gas is lower (down $3 a barrel today alone), and Wall St wants a clean merger. They are the ones who put the "deadline" for the end of the year. They all want this done. The Colgan crash also made people look at this possibility, and having no say over a Regional's training program and also the possibility of new liability laws in the future (brought up just after the recent law was already drafted) mean the Legacies have to look at this. I don't know if this will happen, but it is a strong possibility. Stronger now than ever.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

lots of napoleons around here...

 

[Captain X]

The Continental/UAL negotiators are just posturing and trying to create some leverage. They know they can't bet the Jeannie back in the bottle. Scope is for sale.

Is Jeannie the name of that man in your avatar?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The guy has a screw loose. I've diagnosed this turd aka Urinal Lee with Bipolar Disorder with comordbid Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Not a great combination and usually stems from childhood trauma (aka daddy touched his wee wee).