Looks Like 1500 Hours May Become the New Hiring Minimum Among Other Things:

[waveflyer]

I couldn't be happier w/ the agreement over the need to raise both academic and experience standards- well said Lear and others! And it IS a great comparison between the legal/ medical profession and us-

But here's the question- would each of us 'vetted' pilots be willing to go through the tougher academics to get up to par? I would! Absolutely. Welcome it.

 

[pilotyip]

College degree anyone?

I couldn't be happier w/ the agreement over the need to raise both academic and experience standards- well said Lear and others! And it IS a great comparison between the legal/ medical profession and us.

So like Doctors, Lawyers, and MBA's, we are going to make a college degree a per-req. for an ATP? From what college? What curriculum? on-campus or off-campus, pay your fee get your B?, what would determine the academic experience except a test like the MCAT, GMAT, ACT or SAT that put ATP candidates in the upper 15% of all people taking test? Kinda like the screening you need to get into the military, lets make 20/20 uncorrected a minimum for an ATP. Nothing but the absolute best..

 

[waveflyer]

Yip-
I'll bite- though I really think you're insecure and scared from a management perspective.
20/20 uncorrected isn't something you can control- academics is- I wasn't going that far- but I wouldn't object- I graduated magna cum laude from a good tough school- we operate - it's not book work that we do- but I can't help but think that if the colgan captain had a better understanding of what was going on - he would have been able to save himself and his passengers. Without researching it- I would support aligning our academics to JAA standards- no degree reqd- but a more legitimate and learning process . We all know our T/F 3-answer multiple choice- published answer tests are a complete 100% joke. How about we make it ' not a joke' and go from there ? Sound good?

 

[Clyde Frog]

So like Doctors, Lawyers, and MBA's, we are going to make a college degree a per-req. for an ATP? From what college? What curriculum? on-campus or off-campus,

Excellent idea pilotyip.

A four year degree in Aviation Science from an accredited institution should be required for the ATP. Absolutely.

 

[Kalifornia]

So like Doctors, Lawyers, and MBA's, we are going to make a college degree a per-req. for an ATP? From what college? What curriculum? on-campus or off-campus, pay your fee get your B?, what would determine the academic experience except a test like the MCAT, GMAT, ACT or SAT that put ATP candidates in the upper 15% of all people taking test? Kinda like the screening you need to get into the military, lets make 20/20 uncorrected a minimum for an ATP. Nothing but the absolute best..

Good god, 7200 posts at your age!!!??? This much devotion to downgrading this profession on here is beyond bizarre. From one hip in need of replacement, you'll shoot out the notion that this is an easy job that high school drop outs can do just fine at and then the other hip in need of replacement you shoot out that a typical 70 year is completely competent to handle the rigors of the crappy work conditions you now help create. You are an aviation legend, however not a respectable one.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

1500 hours after 10 years of military service is pretty weak. Sounds like someone who was more interested in sitting at a desk instead of progressing in a flying career. In any case, tough. Mins are the min.

Not really!! Not sure what the current optempo is for home-station v. a deployed aviator, but 200-400 hrs a home-station does happen and has happened. Things have changed, but I'd like to here from some pure mil pilots out here and see what they are logging a year. With more deployments mil pilots are flying a lot more hours in a year. But with $$ going to the units overseas and less for returned units means lower flying hour programs for non-deployed units.

Being a military aviator isn't like a civilian Part 135 or 91 pilot who will sell their soul to log time. Hell, I saw it in the regional I worked were one guy was always picking up extra time and logged just shy of 1,000 hrs. for the year. Hey, all the power to him. A mil pilot can't do that since they each have additional duties. Most newly minted aviators don't like to sit behind any desk, trust me.

This change in hiring numbers is a long time coming. I hope we do see the ATP as a requirement. I also hope to see that a military pilot's record (hours) are consider within the revised reg so their service and experience can be applied in the civilian sector. It's done for doctors and lawyers.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Good god, 7200 posts at your age!!!??? This much devotion to downgrading this profession on here is beyond bizarre. From one hip in need of replacement, you'll shoot out the notion that this is an easy job that high school drop outs can do just fine at and then the other hip in need of replacement you shoot out that a typical 70 year is completely competent to handle the rigors of the crappy work conditions you now help create. You are an aviation legend, however not a respectable one.

I love this post.

 

[Raskal]

Excellent idea pilotyip.

A four year degree in Aviation Science from an accredited institution should be required for the ATP. Absolutely.

ROTFLMAO... "aviation science"! Good one!

 

[waveflyer]

The mil concern is a valid one- bit 1500 hrs isn't a lot- if you're not flying that much why not join the base flying club and make sure you log an extra 100 + hrs a year to make sure you hit the target- or even better- instruct- lite plane flying does teach you a lot- and instructing would give the single pilot guys some semblance of CRM and how to teach when you need to as a captain.

Most mil guys do meet the requirements - where the 1500 ATP really helps is at the regionals- it'll force a lot more pilots to go the 135 SPIFR route which gives you invaluable experience. I learned more in 4 months doing that than many full years of airline flying.

Just remember from the union standpoint it has to lead to higher wages (which is truly why so many regional pilots fly tired a lot- to pay the rent on weak wages). And higher wages are about the only pressure that could get some of this outsourcing back in the tent where it should be

Take 5 minutes and WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN TODAY- tell them who you are and that you want increased standards. Be heard! Think we finally have some motivation for them to listen

 

[ualdriver]

Has anyone thought that this may be just he recipe for those rich pilots whose daddy’s own an airplane or has lots of money to eliminate all of the poor trash trying to be pilots? It will become the career that rich people can pass down to their kids. Is this going to be a result of this?

How is that any different that what is happening right now? Countless people passed me early in my career, even though I had a much better academic record and better quality flight time because their parents paid for their job at Comair or Atlantic Coast.

Further, how is that any different than any other profession?

So like Doctors, Lawyers, and MBA's, we are going to make a college degree a per-req. for an ATP? From what college? What curriculum? on-campus or off-campus, pay your fee get your B?, what would determine the academic experience except a test like the MCAT, GMAT, ACT or SAT that put ATP candidates in the upper 15% of all people taking test? Kinda like the screening you need to get into the military, lets make 20/20 uncorrected a minimum for an ATP. Nothing but the absolute best..

Where did anyone say that a college degree was going to be a prerequisite? All anyone is saying is that the path to an ATP should be more academically challenging and they use other countries' certification path as an example. I agree it should be more challenging, particularly the written testing. What we have now is an absolute joke.

We don't need to turn this into a medical board certification, but we could look at how other professionals groups test their members (FINRA for financial professionals, Microsoft, Cisco certifications for computer professionals, etc.) and perhaps use them as examples. I have taken a FINRA written exam before and it was FAR harder than any written exam I have taken from the FAA. But it forced me to learn the material in order to pass the exam, vs. the "memorize the questions" format we use now.