Looks Like 1500 Hours May Become the New Hiring Minimum Among Other Things:

[waveflyer]

WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN- MAKE THE CALL

Subcommittee on Aviation

U.S. House of Representatives
111th Congress
Majority (2251 RHOB) - (202) 225-9161
Minority (2251 RHOB) - (202) 226-3220
Jerry F. Costello, Illinois, Chairman
Members​

Issues in the Spotlight

• H.R. 3371 "Airline Safety and Pilots Training Act of 2009"
• H.R. 3371 Summary

http://transportation.house.gov/subcommittees/aviation.aspx

Subcommittee on Aviation

Jerry F. Costello, Illinois, Chairman​

[SIZE=-1]Russ Carnahan, Missouri Parker Griffith, Alabama
Michael E. McMahon, New York
Peter A. DeFazio, Oregon
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of Columbia
Bob Filner, California
Eddie Bernice Johnson, Texas
Leonard L. Boswell, Iowa
Tim Holden, Pennsylvania
Michael E. Capuano, Massachusetts
Daniel Lipinski, Illinois
Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Harry E. Mitchell, Arizona
John J. Hall, New York
Steve Cohen, Tennessee
Laura A. Richardson, California
John A. Boccieri, Ohio
Nick J. Rahall, II, West Virginia
Corrine Brown, Florida
Elijah E. Cummings, Maryland
Jason Altmire, Pennsylvania
Solomon P. Ortiz, Texas
Mark H. Schauer, Michigan
James L. Oberstar, Minnesota (ex officio)
Vacancy
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Thomas E. Petri, Wisconsin, Ranking Member
Howard Coble, North Carolina
John J. Duncan, Jr., Tennessee
Vernon J. Ehlers, Michigan
Frank A. LoBiondo, New Jersey
Jerry Moran, Kansas
Sam Graves, Missouri
John Boozman, Arkansas
Shelley Moore Capito, West Virginia
Jim Gerlach, Pennsylvania
Charles W. Dent, Pennsylvania
Connie Mack, Florida
Lynn A. Westmoreland, Georgia
Jean Schmidt, Ohio
Mary Fallin, Oklahoma
Vern Buchanan, Florida
Brett Guthrie, Kentucky

[/SIZE]

 

[waveflyer]

This is worth more than any pissing contest whether it's mil/civ or regional/major.

Contact the Committee

2165 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-4472
Fax: (202) 226-1270

 

[pilotyip]

Hello, what about the consumer

It seems that everyone is ignoring the consumer, except management who understand that keeping seats filled is the only things that creates and sustains pilot jobs. In the end the consumer will spend less dollars on airline tickets as the price goes up. The marginal propensity to consume is a powerful factor in the market place. Raising wages and resultant costs will be good for a few senior pilots and not so good for everyone else. Airline ABC is a gold seal ALPA endorsed best practices airline, LAX-JFK $400, XYZ is a new airline, not endorsed, LAX-JFK $350. Which one will have higher load factor?

 

[JustaNumber]

Pilotyip,
That's why everyone needs to play under the same rules. Just like the government mandating a higher quality TSA agent (sure they're still idiots but they're higher calibre idiots than pre-9/11), the government has a responsibility to the public to increase pilot quality.

You must admit that the combination of low regional wages and the ease of qualifying for the regional pilot position (two things that actually are cause and effect) has caused a reduction in the overall quality of pilots. The proposed legislation before congress would change that.

 

[pilotyip]

I am just an observer

Pilotyip,
That's why everyone needs to play under the same rules. Just like the government mandating a higher quality TSA agent (sure they're still idiots but they're higher calibre idiots than pre-9/11), the government has a responsibility to the public to increase pilot quality.

You must admit that the combination of low regional wages and the ease of qualifying for the regional pilot position (two things that actually are cause and effect) has caused a reduction in the overall quality of pilots. The proposed legislation before congress would change that.

I really have no dog in this fight. But I continue to post there will be unintended consequences of any action to change the status quo. I think I see a belief amongst the posters here that pay raises will go to everyone in the name of safety, stability, or whatever other reason is given to raise pay. Then it seems this is coupled with the belief that everything else will stay the same as it is now. That all pilots will do the same jobs they are doing right now except make more money with the same days off. I just do not believe the industry can absorb any additional costs and still sell tickets at the current prices. If tickets prices go up then passengers go down. Any change will good for a few senior guys and not so good for everyone else. Do whatever you guys want to do, it your industry just watch out what you ask for.

 

[ualdriver]

I really have no dog in this fight. But I continue to post there will be unintended consequences of any action to change the status quo. I think I see a belief amongst the posters here that pay raises will go to everyone in the name of safety, stability, or whatever other reason is given to raise pay. Then it seems this is coupled with the belief that everything else will stay the same as it is now. That all pilots will do the same jobs they are doing right now except make more money with the same days off. I just do not believe the industry can absorb any additional costs and still sell tickets at the current prices. If tickets prices go up then passengers go down. Any change will good for a few senior guys and not so good for everyone else. Do whatever you guys want to do, it your industry just watch out what you ask for.

1) 250 hr. pilots have no business being in the right seat of an airliner. If you argument is that we need to overlook this indiscretion in order to keep butts in seats- I don't care.

2) Pilots costs are an EXTREMELY low cost item as a percentage of an airline's total costs, around 2% of total costs for my airline according to the BTS website which compiles that sort of data. If the FAA raises minimum standards, we're talking about raising that small 2% by a small percentage. Seriously, how much do you really think this small, incremental cost is going to cost the consumer compared to, for example, today's increase in crude oil futures, up 3% today alone? I don't disagree that every time you increase costs by one penny, X amount less people fly, but that's a "risk," a small risk, I'm willing to take.

3) I think it will be good not just for senior pilots, but for junior pilots who are going to have an opportunity to earn a livable wage AND society as a whole because hopefully we'll see better qualified pilots flying jets around.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

It seems that everyone is ignoring the consumer, except management who understand that keeping seats filled is the only things that creates and sustains pilot jobs. In the end the consumer will spend less dollars on airline tickets as the price goes up. The marginal propensity to consume is a powerful factor in the market place. Raising wages and resultant costs will be good for a few senior pilots and not so good for everyone else.

More B.S.

1) Its not the pilots' job to advocate how to sell tickets, that's the management's job. The pilots don't need to fight our own fights and do your job too.

2)If a company can not pay it's employees and it's professional a respectable and reasonable wages and at the same time be profitable, then there is something wrong with it's business model.

As it is, airlines profit margins is so low that any hiccups would send the balance sheets into red figures, there is something wrong with that business model. That goes to show most airlines management inept.

 

[AC560]

As it is, airlines profit margins is so low that any hiccups would send the balance sheets into red figures, there is something wrong with that business model.

Correct and what needs to happen is that a couple airlines need to liquidate as we have more supply then demand can support in the market. What YIP is advocating keeps your job, what your advocating helps stock prices. I never really understood myself why the debt holders at many of the airlines just don't cash in or lock the unions out and hire lower paid scabs.

Where you go wrong though is "The pilots don't need to fight our own fights and do your job too.". If the airline liquidates you get to look forward to joining the bottom of a seniority list someplace else (maybe) with a tremendous cut in pay. If the airline merges you probably get forward to looking at the same. Management on the other hand will merely go work in another or the same industry (an accountant is an accountant) for the same or probably more pay. This gets back though to the fact that pilots have fundamentally screwed themselves as the means to their compensation (seniority versus contribution or skill) at most airlines.

My situation going from Tigers to the freight forwarding side isn't a great example as FedEx took pretty good care of everyone. We picked up a lot of office (supervisors/management/executives) people in the Eastern/Pan Am debacles though, most of them ended up doing the same or better then previous. The pilots didn't fair so well in either of those two situations.

Bottom line is pilots have no leverage of any kind today, everyone knows it. All a strike at UA for example would do is get management parachutes and put all the pilots on the street. What the unions need to be doing is figuring out how they can work more with management and create opportunities which strengthen the company through work rule changes (not necessarily salary changes) that also compensate the worker for greater efficiencies and profits. This isn't the 1960's and either the unions adapt to modern reality or they go away.

But the bottom line is pilots and management are in it together. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts.

 

[pilotyip]

BS Number

1) 2) Pilots costs are an EXTREMELY low cost item as a percentage of an airline's total costs, around 2% of total costs for my airline according to the BTS website which compiles that sort of data. If the FAA raises minimum standards, we're talking about raising that small 2% by a small percentage. Seriously, how much do you really think this small, incremental cost is going to cost the consumer compared to, for example, today's increase in crude oil futures, up 3% today alone? I don't disagree that every time you increase costs by one penny, X amount less people fly, but that's a "risk," a small risk, I'm willing to take.
.

From ATW, total airline employee compensation 26% to 45% of gross profit, depending upon the airline. Pilot make up the largest single segmentof total payrol. did not have the numbers, but it is most likely in the 15% to 20% of gross profit. If the pilot get a raise do all the other employees go without rasies. If all employees get raises, what happens to profits?

 

[pilotyip]

Nice dose of reality

But the bottom line is pilots and management are in it together. Anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts.

Nice to see some are figuring it out