Logging landings as a CFI....

[siucavflight]

As a CFI I logged every landing I was in the airplane for, you are PIC, you are responsible if any metal gets bent. I went in for interviews at 6 different 121 operators, now work at Eagle, and never had anyone question it.

 

[fussle]

Anytime you are acting as the flight instructor, you may log that time as PIC, even if they have their commercial certificate 61.51 (e)(3). Although technically, the landings where you were not the sole manipulator of the controls would not count towards your 90 day currency as per 61.57 (a)(1)(i).

 

[greyhound]

I don't log landings that I didn't perform, so I have to keep track on whether or not I'm current when I want to go up on my own with passengers (especially during the night).
Instrument approaches/Holding are also things I don't log for myself when I teach unless I'm on an IFR flight plan in actual.

 

[Seadogrun]

But that's the case even if you, the CFI, and a couple of your private pilot buddies are out flying around and you're dozing in the back seat when your buddy busts a TFR. Guess who's gonna get hung?

I have heard of this, but haven't actually read anything on this case. Could you point me in the right direction to find any literature on this case?

Was it the FAA that brough charges against the back seat sleeper? Or was it in civil court (lawsuit) that declared the back seater responsible? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Lazy8]

Not always. What if the student is rated for and in the aircraft? PIC is determined in the briefing. You cannot log the landing unless you perform the landing. You can keep your currency by demonstrating landings to students.

You are always PIC while acting as an instructor even if you're with a rated pilot. The rated pilot you're with may be making the decisions, but the instructor has final authority and responsibility over the flight.

 

[AC560]

You are always PIC while acting as an instructor even if you're with a rated pilot. The rated pilot you're with may be making the decisions, but the instructor has final authority and responsibility over the flight.

According to a lawyer, probably. According to the FAR's, no.

 

[Lazy8]

According to a lawyer, probably. According to the FAR's, no.

I should have probably phrased my original statement better. You can always log PIC time while instructing, even if you are not acting as PIC. Like you said, lawyers and insurance companies rule our industry but you still have a responsibility to uphold while acting as an instructor. Why else would you be allowed to log PIC without acting as PIC? On that note, gear-up an RG with a rated pilot in commercial training and explain to the FAA that (s)he was acting as PIC. How do you think that's going to work out for you?

As for the thread topic. You can only legally log landings where you were the sole manipulator of the controls. This came up at a CFI event at the Denver FSDO recently and they couldn't stress enough that you should only be logging the landings you did as the sole manipulator. If you had to save a landing, then hey, log what you think is necessary. Logging every one is a bit ridiculous though since there's no way a CFI miraculously saves each landing.

g

 

[midlifeflyer]

I have heard of this, but haven't actually read anything on this case.

That's only because it's hard to read about a case that doesn't exist.

 

[midlifeflyer]

On landings: Does anyone else find it scary that a whole bunch of CFIs here don't know the rules?

 

[AC560]

On landings: Does anyone else find it scary that a whole bunch of CFIs here don't know the rules?

The whole issue in my opinion stems from the fact that FAA defines being PIC and logging PIC as two different things when common sense says they shouldn't be.

 

[Lazy8]

The whole issue in my opinion stems from the fact that FAA defines being PIC and logging PIC as two different things when common sense says they shouldn't be.

Acting as PIC and logging PIC has no connection with logable landings. You simply have to be the sole manipulator of the controls. You can be the sole manipulator of the controls without acting as PIC or logging PIC time.

 

[AC560]

Acting as PIC and logging PIC has no connection with logable landings. You simply have to be the sole manipulator of the controls. You can be the sole manipulator of the controls without acting as PIC or logging PIC time.

I never said it did but if you read through this thread there seems to be a general idea that because the CFI is logging PIC he can log the landing. This stems from the fact that in my opinion most people confuse logging PIC with acting as PIC.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I never said it did but if you read through this thread there seems to be a general idea that because the CFI is logging PIC he can log the landing. This stems from the fact that in my opinion most people confuse logging PIC with acting as PIC.

I see what you are saying. But even without the logging v acting mess, there are enough "it's my ticket on the line so I'm logging it" posts to suggest a bigger problem: a simple failure to recognize that all of these logging rules are in some sense artificial. The are written down, sometimes in excruciating detail. Logging is based on what the words on the page say (and the way the FAA has interpreted those words), and not on what we feel like they should say or we feel is our due.

==============================
no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers...unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and ... The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls
==============================

Definitely regulese, but not a particularly difficult version of it.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Good post...thanks for the feedback!

 

[AC560]

not on what we feel like they should say or we feel is our due.

Logging PIC as a F/O is my favorite FI thread of all time (except maybe diarrhea in a freighter).