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wms said:
The old cba required five crews per airplane above five planes. When the union signed the TPA a provision was added exempting aircraft that go to (or through) the lessor. Originally when the six -200s went to Skyw for the phx operation five to ten crews should've gone with the planes retaining their seniority. But since the lessor exclusion was added to the TPA Asa pilots were just offered interviews. Of course, when I inquired the company played dumb, which is no stretch and the MEC would not accept or return my calls. How this TA addresses fragmentation I don't know, but I suspect it's not in our favor.
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Thanks. I found a bullet point memo that the MEC sent by Email. It has some information on this topic, as well as a few other topics. We may see some issues when leases expire on some of our aircraft. It looks like there is no pilot protection for loss of aircraft due to lease expiration (as you mentioned). The bullet points for the TA are in the link below.

http://xjtjcba.alpa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=h5+9wxKd6PU=&tabid=7998
 
Here's a funny one in section 12. I can't push back 15 minutes after being dropped-off at the curb. That doesn't even give me time to take a dump after clearing security, let alone prepare an airliner for flight. We currently are guaranteed 45 minutes.

 Report times:
o 60 minutes in domicile.
o 45 minutes at outstation.
o May be reduced 15 minutes for FARs, rest period, or RX legality.
o Up to 120 minutes for charter flights.
 
ASADriver said:
Oakum_Boy said:
Pay me from brake released/doors closed- to brake set/door open, I'm amenable to an agreement.
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What the heck are you talking about. The pay language is the same as it is now. Most of the issues you bring up aren't even issues.
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From the contract bullet points:



  • Block In Block Out current book for ERJ (Main Cabin Door) and CRJ (Aircraft Movement), new equipment will be CRJ language.
I was skeptical during the last contract negotiations because of the "aircraft movement" language, but I later rationalized that they just never removed some old language they never meant to use. But this new contract requiring new equipment to be CRJ language, means THEY INTEND TO USE THIS. This can add up to a loss of potentially HUNDREDS of dollars per paycheck.

There are quite a few things here that simply taken alone require a NO vote. Add them all up, and you gotta be kidding me.
 
I am guessing that "aircraft movement" thing would only affect you if you are going overblock, but that's beside the point. You would lose money.
Why should this be in the TA? Whatever is reported to Delta.com as the departure and arrival time should be the official statistic, and we should be paid for overblock. Just no way this should be acceptable in current form.
 
Count the number of times you have sat, all buttoned up ready to go, waiting for the ground crew to show up or finish the plane next to you, so you could push. Or what about ramp congestion? How many times have you called for push and been told to standby.

All that time is now your gift to brad holt.
 
No Delay said:
Count the number of times you have sat, all buttoned up ready to go, waiting for the ground crew to show up or finish the plane next to you, so you could push. Or what about ramp congestion? How many times have you called for push and been told to standby.

All that time is now your gift to brad holt.
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Correction...all that time is Brad Holt's attempted gift to himself. I say attempted because we won't be giving him this gift.

It's not uncommon to wait for 45 minutes in LGA for pushback. Who does he think he is asking me to babysit 76 people for 45 minutes for free? Even babysitters (watching just one kid) get paid seven bucks an hour!

NO.
 
JustaNumber said:
Correction...all that time is Brad Holt's attempted gift to himself. I say attempted because we won't be giving him this gift.

It's not uncommon to wait for 45 minutes in LGA for pushback. Who does he think he is asking me to babysit 76 people for 45 minutes for free? Even babysitters (watching just one kid) get paid seven bucks an hour!

NO.
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Your not babysitting, the FA is...
 
russtgol said:
Your not babysitting, the FA is...
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"YOU'RE"

And guess who's ultimately responsible for the FA and the passengers.

Because I'm not on the clock I won't be held responsible for everything that happens on that plane? Get a clue.
 
No Delay said:
Count the number of times you have sat, all buttoned up ready to go, waiting for the ground crew to show up or finish the plane next to you, so you could push. Or what about ramp congestion? How many times have you called for push and been told to standby.

All that time is now your gift to brad holt.
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EXACTLY!!!!
Just one of the many reasons I am a. NO vote!!
 
In reality, our pay should begin 25 minutes prior to brake release. Twenty-five minutes is the minimal amount of time required to do a thorough pre-flight inspection and conduct all required pre-departure briefings, verifications, and checklists. That time is real work. Why do we give it away for $1.70 an hour? Now, they want to take even more.
 
Oakum_Boy said:
"YOU'RE"

And guess who's ultimately responsible for the FA and the passengers.

Because I'm not on the clock I won't be held responsible for everything that happens on that plane? Get a clue.
Click to expand...
Q: Guess who's ultimately responsible for the FA, passengers and pilots
A: The mechanics..
 
russtgol said:
Q: Guess who's ultimately responsible for the FA, passengers and pilots
A: The mechanics..
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So when it all goes south, they will call a mechanic in to the CPs office? "Your" sure about that?:rolleyes:
 
Mickey Mouse said:
In reality, our pay should begin 25 minutes prior to brake release. Twenty-five minutes is the minimal amount of time required to do a thorough pre-flight inspection and conduct all required pre-departure briefings, verifications, and checklists. That time is real work. Why do we give it away for $1.70 an hour? Now, they want to take even more.
Click to expand...

I'll go one better.
We should be paid from report in to report out!! Why do we work for free?
 
Has anyone determined what constitutes "aircraft movement," for block pay purposes on the CRJ? Is it when the push starts, or is it when the aircraft moves under its own power.
 
ACARS is a simple system. Out time = pax door closed, parking brake released, off time = weight off wheels, on time = weight on wheels, in time = pax door open. That is it! No other way to monitor. The anti-skid system is not linked into the ACARS system so there is no way for the company to monitor wheel speed!
 
Ops check good said:
ACARS is a simple system. Out time = pax door closed, parking brake released, off time = weight off wheels, on time = weight on wheels, in time = pax door open. That is it! No other way to monitor. The anti-skid system is not linked into the ACARS system so there is no way for the company to monitor wheel speed!
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So what do they use to peg an out time? GPS position?
 
This is a disaster waiting to happen. The language is so loose. There must be a reason they separated the aircraft out and in times between the CRJ and the E-145. The CRJ currently operates under the door closed and parking brake off conditions for block-out. Both aircraft are capable of using the same out and in times. The Joint MEC continues to disgust me every time I read a new section. They can take this sht back and start over.

Here is the language from Section 3 of the TA regarding Block Times:

Pay/Block Time

CRJ Fleet and New Equipment

Block-out time occurs when an aircraft first moves from the ramp, blocks under its own power, or by push-back for the purposes of flight. Block-in time occurs when the aircraft comes to rest at the next point of landing or returns to the ramp.
 
What the Fu'k does "block under its own power mean"? Do they mean "move under its own power?" Also, we are gonna get reamed on the block-in times. This is all new language, and they are going to use it to maximize pilot cost control. I have a feeling that when we land at our destination or diversion airport, we will not get paid for waiting for a parking spot during ramp congestion, gate occupied, or parking during diversions. This is a major hit on our pay during the highest work loads. The language clearly says "Block-in time occurs when the aircraft comes to rest at the next point of landing or returns to the ramp". It does not stipulate "whichever comes later or first". We are going to get ripped-off at the gate too. During de-icing or other prolonged gate operations with the door closed, we will not get paid. I can't count on the good will of the company for this section of the contract. I've been burned too many times. Burn me once, shame on you; Burn me twice, shame on me.
 
If it means the same ghetto gaggers who code all the delays as "08M: late completion of checklist" will be coding out and in then I'm confident it's a disaster.
 
I wonder if it would be best to just go to day rates. Since we are subject to so much unpaid usage of our time. It may be better if we negotiate a per-day amount. That way, the company gets max usage and we get max pay. We could equate this to an 8 hour block per day minimum for ANY day of usage. That way, they can have unlimited usage of our time and skills for each day, and we can paid for it.
 

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