LEX Comair Crew on a nap/cdo/

[Flycatcher99]

Just think of it this way…the accident at MDW…you don’t need to be a 121 pilot to know what happened. One can do the analysis on their own and simply figure out that the plane DID land long. Runway condition and weather did contribute to the accident, but ‘pilot error was the main cause of ‘over run’.

Does that mean that I can take one of your sentences, do my own analysis of it, excluding all other writings of yours, not meet you, not know anything else about you, and can accurately conclude that you're an idiot?

That's quite an intuition you have, that you are able to resolve pilot error in MDW, with nothing but Fox news and your almighty prowess. How do you fit through doors with that head?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

my dad can beat up your dad...

How about we get back on topic kids?

 

[DenverDude2002]

Why cant there be one civil discussion about this crash before it turns into name calling, we're not all 5 year olds here, now has anyone heard about the First officers condition?

 

[Metro752]

TV News has nothing except some dumb cvnt who said the NTSB was worried they may not get to interview him.

 

[Lear70]

A 'Professor Emirates’ of Aerospace Engineering knows more about airplanes than your brain, as a pilot, could ever comprehend.

Bunny

D@mn... I thought she had gone away. *sigh*

Last time she was arguing a thread she had NO clue about, she "claimed" to be a regional pilot who also had a Master's Degree (or was it a PhD?) and was assistant teaching Aerodynamics out in California.

That was about 8 months ago.

Now you're an Airbus pilot?

*cough* BULLSH*T!

Back on topic...

The contributing factors that lead to the wrong runway being entered are very thought-provoking. Yaak has it right, again, about it being our professional responsibility to be able to work past all that, but you begin to see the chain of events leading up to the crash as more details become available and wonder how YOU might have done.

What we ALSO don't know is the mental state of mind of the pilots involved. Was one of them having a hard time sleeping? Was one of them having difficulties at home or with work? Had one of them stayed up drinking on a 20+ hour layover and didn't rest properly?

Yes, some of those factors, IF they played a part, would have been an additional causal factor. The bottom line is we don't yet know enough to say, as Bunny did, that "I hope the FAA takes Comair and Delta to the limit on this" (or some such nonsense - my browser doesn't go back that far on posts to quote directly).

You're NOT the NTSB, you DON'T have all the facts, and you cannot POSSIBLY, REASONABLY make a snap decision like that. To do so only points out your relative ignorance or arrogance. Pick one.

As far as CDO's go, the danger I always hated about them was being assigned one on reserve. I just finished a 3-day trip at 11 last night, got to the crashpad at midnight, asleep by 1 a.m. On reserve for 2 more days, was called and released into rest this morning RIGHT AFTER I WOKE UP for a CDO tonight.

Now how the heck do I rest during the day? I'm not sleepy NOW... but I will be tonight when I get into the hotel for 4:30 of hotel time. I will wake up tired and go back to the line drinking as much coffee as possible and thankful it's only an 1:20 flight back to ATL.

Mixing day trips and CDO's SHOULD be illegal. Not that it has ANYTHING to do with this accident,,,

I return you to your regularly scheduled mud-slinging fest and thread hijack...

jeez...

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

I've heard that Jim's family has decided not to release info on his condition.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Is there any help in place to keep the media/government out of the hospital?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Report,
I would imagine there are police at the hospital if not at his door. Most law enforcement has the same opinion of the media as we do.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Sure, but who is making sure the FAA or NTSB doesn't get in there. Certainly the cops don't know any better.

 

[MJG]

Sure, but who is making sure the FAA or NTSB doesn't get in there. Certainly the cops don't know any better.

ALPA, at least I hope that's one of the things they're doing right now....

 

[asmn]

Just because it was a 28 hour layover in the bid packet doesn't mean that the trip wasn't modified. How many times have crew members been displaced? Note the New York and Cincinnati bases of the crew All could not have been possibly been flying the original trip and been from different bases. Let's see what is released later about their actual schedules.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Just because it was a 28 hour layover in the bid packet doesn't mean that the trip wasn't modified. How many times have crew members been displaced? Note the New York and Cincinnati bases of the crew All could not have been possibly been flying the original trip and been from different bases. Let's see what is released later about their actual schedules.

I think a pilot wrote on the Comair ALPA board that the FO and FA came to LEX with him at 0140 Saturday morning, for about a 26 hour layover. And, I thought a dispatcher wrote on one of these threads that the CA deadheaded in at about 1300 on Saturday, for 13 hours.

Haven't seen anything official yet.

 

[SLUF4]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/08/flights_survivo.html#comments
we need reinforcements here. the public has their usual uneducated response to this incident. Go there and let them know what's up

 

[Longhorn]

get This Thread Back On Track Please.....this Is No Place For Personal Attacks...use The Pm Feature For That.

 

[McRuff]

This thread shouldn't exsist in the first place. As pilots, we all know the harm that speculation can cause. Till the facts are in, there is nothing to discuss. Tune out the media BS.

 

[Icelandair]

I think fatigue is a much bigger issue here than realized. If they got in late Friday, I know i can't just get into the hotel and fall over asleep. I need some time to wind down, so they probably got to bed well after midnight. The next day, Saturday, They probably woke up around 9 or 10. I don't know about you, but I can't 8 hours of sleep the next night. Maybe 5 if I am lucky. Because i've learned that if i try to force myself to bed at 7 pm, I end up just starting at the smoke detector light on the ceiling and tossing and turning until about 11 or 12, my normal bedtime. These guys probably had to get up in the 4's for a 5 or 5:15 show time. Dumbass things happen when you are groggy. Maybe scheduling flights in the wee hours of the morning isn't a great idea? Of course the companies wouldn't fix that, only the feds could regulate it and I have little faith in that happening.

 

[172driver]

Per the bid packet, they arrived Fri night, for almost a 28 hour layover.

They weren't necessarily flying a trip from the bid packet. The CA was on reserve. The FO and FA were displaced lineholders, translation: reserves, on a totally different trip than the original. Maybe the dispatcher/scheduler above has specific info about their trip, maybe not, but should not be discussing it here.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

What the hell.....................



At least half a dozen neighbors said they did not know much about the 6-foot-two pilot who worked for Delta Airlines. Records show he received an airline transport pilot certificate in November 2005.
David Norris, who lives next door, said Polehinke had three or four small dogs. Norris also believes he was divorced from his wife, Ida. Florida records do not show the couple had divorced.
Ida Askew, 51, was arrested and charged with attempted murder in July 1999 after she shot Polehinke in the stomach with a handgun while the couple was arguing, police records show.
Askew did not return calls Sunday.
Most of the time, neighbors saw Polehinke drive off in his red Mazda Miata. Once in a while, they would see him working in his yard, they said. They rejoiced that he survived the crash, which authorities said claimed the lives of 49 people.
"I'm happy to hear he's alive," said Kareem Bandele, who lives across the street from Polehinke's home.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Is Bunny....... Mary Schiavo in disguise?

Yeah, I'd say so.

Are you deliberately understating your qualifications in an attempt to get rises out of people who think you some punk CFI spouting flamebait, or are you actively working in a 121 environment? Your perspective and its credibility are, for better or worse, tied to what you have done and what you are currently doing.

While many of your points are valid, your delivery is crass (and that is giving you a free pass on a few snide comments).

I think so!!!!

Also hold off all judgement until ALL of the facts are in.

My deepest sympathy to all the families involved in this tragic event.

 

[CatYaaak]

I think fatigue is a much bigger issue here than realized. If they got in late Friday, I know i can't just get into the hotel and fall over asleep. I need some time to wind down, so they probably got to bed well after midnight. The next day, Saturday, They probably woke up around 9 or 10. I don't know about you, but I can't 8 hours of sleep the next night. Maybe 5 if I am lucky. Because i've learned that if i try to force myself to bed at 7 pm, I end up just starting at the smoke detector light on the ceiling and tossing and turning until about 11 or 12, my normal bedtime. These guys probably had to get up in the 4's for a 5 or 5:15 show time. Dumbass things happen when you are groggy. Maybe scheduling flights in the wee hours of the morning isn't a great idea? Of course the companies wouldn't fix that, only the feds could regulate it and I have little faith in that happening.

How about regulating yourself?

(Please note: This is STRICTLY a response to Icelandair's scenario-question about resting...I'm treating it as a hypothetical as he's laid it out. It is NOT a comment about this accident crew or their rest. Nobody knows yet who was scheduled where, doing what, or what changes were made).

If you got in late that 1st night, and know if you sleep until "9 or 10" you won't be able to get good rest the 2nd night because your schedule is telling you you have a 4-something wake up, why would you sleep-in so late that first morning?

Why wouldn't you set an alarm that first morning and get up early so you'll be ready to sleep by evening and get a good night's rest before you fly? Especially if you can't personally function on 5 hours of sleep and need 8.

What is "normal bedtime"? Even on reserve it's part of the job to adjust your sleep to scheduled rest no matter what they do with you. Nobody's out there doing "rolling-reserve" are they?

Hey, there's not ever been a flight I've had to wake up at 0330 or thereabouts for and thought it was a "good idea". There's only a couple things I want to be doing at that hour. One of those things is not being awake, and the other thing doesn't involve airplanes, or even leaving the room.

But...

Ours is a chosen profession, and early mornings and flying have been going together since Dawn Patrol. That will never change, they'll never regulate it away, and there's no reason they should assuming rest is provided for.

Besides, if they began to regulate things away merely because they sucked, they should begin with WSCoDs.