LEX Comair Crew on a nap/cdo/

[JetPilot_Mike]

Not all Comair aircraft have GPS. I believe EGPWS uses a terrain overlay which is provided aircraft position from the FMS. Which is why when the FMS goes into DR, you get a TERRAIN NOT AVAILABLE status message.

 

[Soverytired]

Yeah its called a heading bug.

Ah, another perfect pilot enters our midst.

By your "logic"

Pilots don't need EGPWS . . . we have altimeters and navs for positional awareness.

Pilots don't need gear warning horns . . . we have checklist.

Pilots don't need TCAS . . . . for that is the job of equally infallible ATC.

Pilots don't need runway incursion warning systems or hold short lighting at busy airports. . . .for we have paint on the pavement.

Pilots don't need Windshear warning systems . . . for we have weather reports and airspeed indicators.

Pilots don't need stall warning systems and shakers . . . for pilots would never fly below Vs 1.3.

Pilots don't need overspeed indicators . . . for we would never exceed a flap speed for VMO thanks to our airspeed indicators.

=====================================================

Unfortunately though, all pilots aren't 100% "perfect" as you. So thank you very, much, but I'll take all the help I can get when it comes to catching stupid mistakes.

(but you can of course ignore all those warning systems when you're flying . . .. after all, YOU would never make a mistake, and if they ever activated you no doubt have a broken warning system)

 

[atrdriver]

Ah, another perfect pilot enters our midst.

By your "logic"

Pilots don't need EGPWS . . . we have altimeters and navs for positional awareness.

Pilots don't need gear warning horns . . . we have checklist.

Pilots don't need TCAS . . . . for that is the job of equally infallible ATC.

Pilots don't need runway incursion warning systems or hold short lighting at busy airports. . . .for we have paint on the pavement.

Pilots don't need Windshear warning systems . . . for we have weather reports and airspeed indicators.

Pilots don't need stall warning systems and shakers . . . for pilots would never fly below Vs 1.3.

Pilots don't need overspeed indicators . . . for we would never exceed a flap speed for VMO thanks to our airspeed indicators.

=====================================================

Unfortunately though, all pilots aren't 100% "perfect" as you. So thank you very, much, but I'll take all the help I can get when it comes to catching stupid mistakes.

(but you can of course ignore all those warning systems when you're flying . . .. after all, YOU would never make a mistake, and if they ever activated you no doubt have a broken warning system)

I agree that all the warning systems are great, but how many accidents can you remember where the GPWS has sounded and both pilots ignored it until it was too late? I can think of 2 off the top of my head. Mindset is a big part of this. If, for whatever reason, you think that a condition exists, it takes a pretty big jolt to break that conviction. Sometimes that jolt is just your FO saying what are you doing. But if BOTH pilots are under the same impression, for whatever reason, even a warning system may not help break the chain.

 

[PCL_128]

ignore list has been updated.

I've got more than a couple of names to add to mine too. This incident has really shown who the pathetic **************************************** around here are. Some of you people make me sick.

 

[Soverytired]

I agree that all the warning systems are great, but how many accidents can you remember where the GPWS has sounded and both pilots ignored it until it was too late? I can think of 2 off the top of my head. Mindset is a big part of this. If, for whatever reason, you think that a condition exists, it takes a pretty big jolt to break that conviction. Sometimes that jolt is just your FO saying what are you doing. But if BOTH pilots are under the same impression, for whatever reason, even a warning system may not help break the chain.

Agreed.

I was responding more to the attitude that all pilots must do is be perfect and all will be just fine. Clearly, pilots are human, they screw up daily, and these warning systems have undoubtly saved thousands of lives.

In this instance, a "heading bug" cannot be considered an active warning system. An FMS/nav based runway alignment warning system as discussed over multiple forumns recently IS.

I'm not aware of it's feasibility in the real world, but I DO think there are very, very few pilots who would continue a takeoff with a "ding ding ding, WRONG RUNWAY DOOFUS" aural warning when takeoff power is applied. At least without being very, very certain they were on the right runway, which is after all the whole point.

 

[acaTerry]

I never knew there were so many pilots who could not make a mistake.

 

[CatYaaak]

.....

aca Terry,

No I don't see the trend and I doubt there is one. Most accidents where fatigue is cited as a factor occur at the end of a long duty day, not at the beginning if legal rest was met. And if rested/adjusted, the fact that it's night or day when the duty occurs is irrelevant in terms of fatigue playing a part.

There are, of course, other inherent risks involved in night flying vs. daytime ops, but it would be erroneous to assume there is an automatic "fatigue" issue just because someone got up early to fly, especially on the first leg of the day.

Conversly, if you're fatigued due to "rolling-reserve" policies, or due to personal habits if you don't, or hold a line, likewise it makes no difference if it's night, day, or early morning.

Too bad about your old airline's policy. Who'd want to work for a company like that anyway? If I'd made my best effort to rest when required but had to make that 3rd call because they jerked me around, I'd walk away with a clear concience. In fact, I'd have been looking around for a new job beginning immediately after I'd placed my 2nd call in order to make the transition seamless.

 

[regionaltard]

As surely as night follows day, this:

The really HORRIBLE thing is that the technology exists TODAY to have stoped this......

.....Yeah its called a heading bug.

leads to this:

.....ignore list has been updated......

.....Ah, another perfect pilot enters our midst......

.....I've got more than a couple of names to add to mine too......

Thanks for helping keep Flight Info "Responsibility Free."

 

[standaman]

Yeah its called a heading bug.

It is common practice at our airline that the heading bug be set to any departure heading given by tower. I do not know if one was given on this particular departure. Maybe this is something that might have to change. I am curious to see if other CRJ operators do this too.

 

[JP4user]

This is not meant as a flame or any type of remark about the crew.

I would assume the crj has efis. Do these displays show the runway on the hsi portion? Our displays on the Boeing have a white runway during t/o and landing. I am just curious if this is not presented in the crj.