Letter of Warning and working at a major.

[AV80R]

Thank you for the information, AV80R. The letter of warning is for a 2 year period.

Although I certainly do not want to jinks myself, what would the consequences be if I recieved another letter within the 2 year period?

Good question but I'm not sure what the answer would be. However, it'd be much more difficult for you to use the "this is what I learned" line then...

Also, when infractions are being evaluated, they DO look at your past history. So it's quite possible an identical infraction would've given you a license suspension for let's say 30 days versus a warning letter. After all, the intention of a warning letter is to warn you not to do it again.

It's all a guess, just stay out of trouble now and you'll do just fine!

 

[pipe]

Good luck to you, stay low, stay out of trouble and you won’t have any trouble in the future once it clears your record, and it will.

I can't believe you told him to "stay low".

PIPE:laugh:

 

[whatitdoing?]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You try to be as clean as you can, but everyone has a skeleton in their closet. I see that you have 1500 hours total time. I'm not trying to be an arse, but it'll take you over 2 years to get the hours to be competative at a major anyway. So, I'd take the LOW and forget about it in two years. Don't leave the ASAP protection. If you still feel miffed about it, consult an aviation lawyer first.

 

[Furloughed80]

Not true! I’ve volunteered in the safety department before and have seen “Notice of Warning” (aka letter of warning) notes in application files when we conducted Pria searches. Pria records will make the letter of warning available to all prospective employers; at least for the duration of the letter (which is usually 2 years).

I am almost positive that a LOW issued through ASAP is not viewable via PRIA. I have sat in on the ASAP committee before and this point was made very clear. It is also documented as part of the ASAP program.


EDIT: On reading the document below it appears AV8OR is right. LOW do show on PRIA.

 

[Furloughed80]

Here is a good resource for what is disclosed in a PRIA and FOIA.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/overview/media/Info Provided By PRIA FOIA and PA.rtf

 

[AV80R]

I am almost positive that a LOW issued through ASAP is not viewable via PRIA. I have sat in on the ASAP committee before and this point was made very clear. It is also documented as part of the ASAP program.

EDIT: On reading the document below it appears AV8OR is right. LOW do show on PRIA.

Tx for the edit - my information came straight from John A. Ryan - the person responsible for the PRIA program at the FAA. In my previous life I had a chance to talk to him numerous times when we were interviewing candidates at my regional airline and he ‘enlightened’ me on many aspects of the program.
My main point was to be honest – too many people think that they can hide certain things from prospective employers and end up being terminated later. Honesty always prevails – even if a person doesn’t get hired at a specific airline, it’s still much better than being terminated from that said airline further down the road.

A letter of warning is NOT the end of the world if you can learn from it and show them why you’ll never make that mistake again. Better yet, get involved with the training department and you might even be able to teach others what not to do – then use that experience when interviewing at major airlines. We hired some guys/gals at my previous regional who had less than stellar records who turned out to be top-notch instructors. They had no problems moving on to better places.

I can't believe you told him to "stay low".

PIPE:laugh:

Pipe, maybe I should've said "keep a good attitude" instead?

 

[T-prop]

The letter of warning was for an altitude deviation. The autopilot failed to capture. I just recieved it.

...I am afraid to dispute it, although the captain is doing that.

Sorry dude, the AP is not the PIC nor is it the SIC.

There is nothing to fight. Blame the AP all you want. You both are getting paid to operate and moniter the infernal contraption while it does all the work.

I've gotten a LOW for the same thing. I blame noone or anything but myself for having my head firmly stuffed up my a$$.

If ATC misspoke, or failed to correct an improper readback you may have something to dispute...

Make a habit of calling "1000' prior" before the altitude alerter beeps and confirm alt capture is armed, monitor till capture. Too many crews use that beep to remind them to say "1000 to level," which negates the purpose of the callout and they go back to reading their magazines, chatting, sleeping... go

Good Luck. You shouldn't have anything to worry about. Just don't try to blame it on the AP in an interview.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Consider this nugget of truth. A Letter of Warning is not a finding of a violation. A LOW is simply "warning" you to mindful of a FAR that may have been violated. Your Captain can not fight a LOW simply because once it is issued its already done & again, it is not a finding of an actual violation.

The Letter of Warning is the least action that the FAA can take to close their file. If the Captain indicates something less than a "compliance oriented attitude" the LOW can become a "Letter of Correction" which is a finding of a violation. Of course that is a possible trigger for Certificate Action.

A Letter of Warning, is just that, a warning to be more careful. A safe, compliance oriented, pilot will learn from the mistake and not repeat it. Problem solved for all involved.

In contrast a pilot who "fights" an LOW might need to be taught a lesson. You do not want to be that guy.

Has you Captain talked to ALPA? If so, I'm surprised they would advise him to fight a LOW unless there are some real black and white indications that the FAA made an error (like he wasn't even on that trip).

Just like others wrote, turn this into a learning story and be careful out there. Let me guess, you were in a climb, or descent and were cleared discretion to another altitude and re-set the alterter before it captured. As a technique, some pilots hold their hand on the knob, others let it capture and then set the discretion altitude.

 

[Four Strings]

In contrast a pilot who "fights" an LOW might need to be taught a lesson. You do not want to be that guy.

I was almost that guy. I was issued a LOW for an altitude violation. Controller says I was cleared to FL 230. Said I blew through it and was told at 23,300 to descend and maintain FL 230. Then he says I went to FL 240 and stayed there the rest of the way from DAL to IAH. WTF? I'm not that stupid. After issuing the LOW, I ask to hear the ATC tape to get some insight to what actually happened that day so that I might learn something. I was told I could listen to the tape afte they retracted the LOW and began certificate action.

I never heard that tape.

 

[pianoman]

Not true! I’ve volunteered in the safety department before and have seen “Notice of Warning” (aka letter of warning) notes in application files when we conducted Pria searches. Pria records will make the letter of warning available to all prospective employers; at least for the duration of the letter (which is usually 2 years).

You're absolutely right. I thought he was talking about a disciplinary letter for something like attendance/sick calls.

Even so I would think you could easily sell yourself in an interview if you had a good attitude about it and could show you learned from the experience.

Many guys getting hired at the majors have a few dings and scratches here and there. It's almost impossible not to with all the flying you do at the regionals. The ones who have screwed up once or twice and realize they're fallible are a lot better to fly with, and I think safer than those who think they can do no wrong.

Good luck.