Lets talk unions....

[ShutupandFly]

republicans don't need any money. libertarians don't have a chance. vote hillary in '08.

God I hope the democrats are dumb enough to run her!

 

[D'Angelo]

And again you miss the point. It’s not there money they are using to support these candidates. They reach into our paychecks and take the money from us. If I want to work I have to pay the union off. Maybe you have missed this but I think this thread is an excellent example of the fact that not all union members support the same positions as the unions. For your other point, no the management at this company is not tense, it’s the dispatcher that are tense. Again you speak of something you know nothing about. I have never worked for a management team as supportive of the dispatchers as I have here. Some people have problems with them but they also seem to be the same ones that have never worked at another office before. I guess they expect this place to be like NASA mission control.

As for wishing me luck. Thanks, now that the union is here we are going to need it.

Hey good luck man. Once the union starts the hostile angry relationship with management enough employees will see the light. Eventually you will be able to do a decertification drive to throw those SOBs off the property. It will be a beautiful day. Someday America WILL be union free. Oh yes it will take a long time but some how, some way we will fight the good fight and rid ourselves of these boils on the A$$ of humanity. They have done nothing but trash and ruin once great careers.

 

[Occam's Razor]

And again you miss the point. It’s not there money they are using to support these candidates. They reach into our paychecks and take the money from us. If I want to work I have to pay the union off.

Eh? You posted this: "Many union members are not democrats but because we are members we are forced to support a party we see as socialist. Maybe I wouldn’t complain so much about this if equal support were given to the Republicans, and Libertarians."

And I explained how a union (eg: ALPA) contributes to any candidate who supports us. I even pasted your comments to keep my response in context. If you're gonna change the track, try to keep in on the same cd.

Maybe you have missed this but I think this thread is an excellent example of the fact that not all union members support the same positions as the unions.

SHOCK!

And I pointed out that we often have disagreements on policy and priorities with people in our own family! It's human nature. Some of those disagreements are going to be with the humans that run your office and your company. They could get very serious, and could lead to a significant life event for you or your co-workers. That is where I believe it is better to speak collectively rather than as individuals.

You disagree.

(See? Even professionals in the same industry can disagree!)

Your disagreement with me on the benefits of collective bargaining are based on a few months being represented by a union. My views are based on 19-years worth of first-hand experience with collective bargaining.

As for wishing me luck. Thanks, now that the union is here we are going to need it.

You don't need luck. You need some cheese for that whine. You're reminding me of my coffee this morning...steaming and bitter.

Maybe I should change my s/n to "ShutUpAndFuelPlan"

 

[Gimpy]

Definition of Occam's Razor compliments of Wikpedia - Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenonshould make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

Per dictionary.com -
A rule in science and philosophy stating that entities should not be multiplied needlessly. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Also called law of parsimony.
risible \RIZ-uh-buhl\, adjective:
1. Capable of laughing; disposed to laugh.
2. Exciting or provoking laughter; worthy of laughter; laughable; amusing.
3. Relating to, connected with, or used in laughter; as, "risible muscles."


Per the definition of Occam's razor, your screen name does not fit. You make way to many assumptions, as well as leave out too many relevant details. You think that only your own situation with a union is relevant and no other point of view is worth anything . It is also not risible since you sound like a broken record, and your insults of others are childish and baseless.

Others on this board had it right. OCD is much more appropriate. It sounds like you've gotten shock therapy. Alpa's great! BZZZT! Alpa's great! BZZZT!

Feel free to pick apart this post like you have everyone else's and only quote the parts you like. Anyone can just scroll up and read the actual post in it's context. You're worse than Bush cherry picking intelligence for the gulf war.

19 years of collective bargaining? Only 11k of flight time? Which airline do you work for? Good for you. Prove it. Frankly, I don't believe any of it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Per the definition of Occam's razor, your screen name does not fit. You make way to many assumptions, as well as leave out too many relevant details. You think that only your own situation with a union is relevant and no other point of view is worth anything . It is also not risible since you sound like a broken record, and your insults of others are childish and baseless.

Somebody needs a hug!

Others on this board had it right. OCD is much more appropriate. It sounds like you've gotten shock therapy. Alpa's great! BZZZT! Alpa's great! BZZZT!

And a kiss! Somebody needs a kiss too....maybe with some tongue in it!

Feel free to pick apart this post like you have everyone else's and only quote the parts you like. Anyone can just scroll up and read the actual post in it's context. You're worse than Bush cherry picking intelligence for the gulf war.

Whoa! That's low!

19 years of collective bargaining? Only 11k of flight time? Which airline do you work for? Good for you. Prove it. Frankly, I don't believe any of it.

Yes; Yes (Check Airman for 9-years); NWA; Thanks!; If you prove you're gimpy; Don't care.

I get paid for "credit". My union negotiated it for me to keep my managers from exploiting the pay-by-the-hour concept. My fighter time was accumulated in .8 segments...but they were a lot of fun.

Since you have nothing to add to the discussion, why don't you go get that hug?

 

[405]

After a group elects to have a union represent them, what should the next steps be? What's supposed to happen?

Someone answer this for me. We'll go from there.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Yes; Yes (Check Airman for 9-years); NWA; Thanks!

Oh, this is just great. A NWA ALPA member spouting off about the virtues of unions. Are you really the same union that left the NWA mechanics out in the cold. Where was your solidarity when union brothers and sisters where picketing in front of the airports you had to walk into. Did you feel a twinge of pain as you crossed there picket line in MSP, DTW or MEM. Maybe if ALPA had supported them they might still have jobs. Oh well at least your still flying and getting a paycheck. BTW remember this the next time your sitting in the crew room slamming scab MX or NW management for screwing you with the bankrupcy. Ever think that if all of the NW unions backed each other you might have had a better standing. Now I'll ask again. What do you think the union is going to be able to improve in my office?

 

[405]

What do you think the union is going to be able to improve in my office?

I'll tell you what's going to happen. We'll have another set of rules on top of the other rules we had before that were just fine. Can't you see that?

That is if our super secret contract gets voted in. Our self elected section chairman has all the details but won't share with the group. Maybe he'll go find another job. Go away, Xxx. Go crawl under a rock somewhere. Get out.

This whole thing sucks. It has only taken a few young uneducated moronic bloody f-holes to ruin an office that USED to be decent to work in.

 

[Gimpy]

Somebody needs a hug!



And a kiss! Somebody needs a kiss too....maybe with some tongue in it!



Whoa! That's low!



Yes; Yes (Check Airman for 9-years); NWA; Thanks!; If you prove you're gimpy; Don't care.

I get paid for "credit". My union negotiated it for me to keep my managers from exploiting the pay-by-the-hour concept. My fighter time was accumulated in .8 segments...but they were a lot of fun.

Since you have nothing to add to the discussion, why don't you go get that hug?

I think I struck a bit of a nerve!

After making this post you tell me to that I have nothing to add the discussion?
ROFL!!!!!! What a joke! What did your post prove? HMMMMM?
Interesting that you are an NWA pilot. Ask your brothers and sisters on furlough how they like ALPA. Better yet I'm sure Midlantic II aka Compass is going to make them feel better.

For all your rederick it comes down to ALPA works for you personally. Hooray for you. I know several NWA pilots on furlough who wouldn't think so highly of ALPA.

My point that I tried to make and am repeating one last time. Can unions work? Yes. Can unions work for Airlines? Yes. Do some work presently for workers especially in the airline industry? A few but not many due to the current conditions in this country and in this industry. Are most unions broken? Yes. Take a look in the newspaper, the internet, Read this thread, Read the majors forum, the regionals forum, and fractional forum, etc. BOHICA seems to be a common theme. The severity depends on the union and company involved.

For you specifically OCD. Is there a diference between NWA ALPA and say PCL's dipsatcher's TWU union. Well, there's a difernece in membership by about 5,000 (give or take a few hundred) to say 30 or 40? Years and years of being an established union vs. there first contract. Different profession. Being out on the line vs. in HQ. I think you get the point. Or then again you probobly don't since you are too self absorbed.

Off my soap box. No go ahead and pick apart my post. Go ahead. I know you want to and can't resist. I'm done arguing with someone who reads posts and yet doesn't comprehend anything said by anyone else. Besides I'm sure you are dying for the last word. I for one don't need it.

 

[AC560]

Are you really the same union that left the NWA mechanics out in the cold. Where was your solidarity when union brothers and sisters where picketing in front of the airports you had to walk into. Did you feel a twinge of pain as you crossed there picket line in MSP, DTW or MEM. Maybe if ALPA had supported them they might still have jobs.

Well said.

 

[Gimpy]

Oh yeah, Spector's are nice. Had one way back in High School. I liked it a lot. I'd like to pick one up again.

405, Do yourself a favor. If you are that concerned about what might or might not be in your contract. Do some research and contact other dispatchers represented by unions specifically TWU. See if you can get copies of there contracts and ask them what they think what does and doesn't work. When they finally come with the first TA compare it to the other contracts and what you've heard from them. Try and reject the first TA and reccomend to change what's weak in the contract from what you learned from the other company dispatchers. Don't leave it to the section chair or the local.

Good luck.

 

[405]

Oh yeah, Spector's are nice. Had one way back in High School. I liked it a lot. I'd like to pick one up again.

405, Do yourself a favor. If you are that concerned about what might or might not be in your contract. Do some research and contact other dispatchers represented by unions specifically TWU. See if you can get copies of there contracts and ask them what they think what does and doesn't work. When they finally come with the first TA compare it to the other contracts and what you've heard from them. Try and reject the first TA and reccomend to change what's weak in the contract from what you learned from the other company dispatchers. Don't leave it to the section chair or the local.

Good luck.

I don't think we'll get that far. We're working on decertification.

 

[En Mort Main]

I would have never known

Wow Management should start calling you Santa because your trying to bring them their dream gift... Trying to decertify something that hasn't even been tried.. Sounds productive.... I hope your getting some kick backs in order to serve management a big bonus....Because i know your not getting anything out of the company...
En Mort Main

 

[ShutupandFly]

Wow Management should start calling you Santa because your trying to bring them their dream gift... Trying to decertify something that hasn't even been tried.. Sounds productive.... I hope your getting some kick backs in order to serve management a big bonus....Because i know your not getting anything out of the company...
En Mort Main

I still have yet to hear what we are going to get from the union besides another deduction out of our check.

 

[405]

Wow Management should start calling you Santa because your trying to bring them their dream gift... Trying to decertify something that hasn't even been tried.. Sounds productive.... I hope your getting some kick backs in order to serve management a big bonus....Because i know your not getting anything out of the company...
En Mort Main

Where have you worked where dispatchers were represented by a union? I'm curious. Let's hear about the great things our union will do for us.

I have gotten what everyone else in that office has gotten since August: Nothing. No annual pay raise, no bonus checks and more stringent work rules. Curiously enough, most of the people who have left the company since August were the people who wanted the union so bad.

I wish could say I was getting kick backs but I'm not. Here's something to chew on, Mort. How much money have we saved the company by voting this in? What have you been told about what we're going to get? I haven't been told sh*t. It's all a big secret.

 

[D'Angelo]

Oh, this is just great. A NWA ALPA member spouting off about the virtues of unions. Are you really the same union that left the NWA mechanics out in the cold. Where was your solidarity when union brothers and sisters where picketing in front of the airports you had to walk into. Did you feel a twinge of pain as you crossed there picket line in MSP, DTW or MEM. Maybe if ALPA had supported them they might still have jobs. Oh well at least your still flying and getting a paycheck. BTW remember this the next time your sitting in the crew room slamming scab MX or NW management for screwing you with the bankrupcy. Ever think that if all of the NW unions backed each other you might have had a better standing. Now I'll ask again. What do you think the union is going to be able to improve in my office?

That strike was a tard strike. If they fell on their sword then no mechanics, no pilots, no F/As, no one would have a job. Good thing they were smart enough not to honor that picket line. It was a mechanic strike not a pilot strike. There is no union rule requiring a strike just because someone else is on one.

 

[En Mort Main]

the Union has not done anything bad yet everything that has happened negative has been the company and only the company... Remember the union can't do anything until the contract is in. So if you want someone to blame, Blame management who has made the situation what it is. Remember good managed companies don't even come to having a union vote..
Company is going to continue to punish yje workforce for voting the union in... and don't believe that if you get rid of the union that things will be back to being jolly.... oh in the eyes of management you have disrespected them so now they have to prove they are the boss
En Mort Main

 

[Occam's Razor]

Oh, this is just great. A NWA ALPA member spouting off about the virtues of unions. Are you really the same union that left the NWA mechanics out in the cold. Where was your solidarity when union brothers and sisters where picketing in front of the airports you had to walk into. Did you feel a twinge of pain as you crossed there picket line in MSP, DTW or MEM. Maybe if ALPA had supported them they might still have jobs. Oh well at least your still flying and getting a paycheck. BTW remember this the next time your sitting in the crew room slamming scab MX or NW management for screwing you with the bankrupcy. Ever think that if all of the NW unions backed each other you might have had a better standing.

Gee Wally...I wonder why none of the OTHER unions at NWA honored the AMFA picket line? Let's see if you can choose the correct answer:

A. The mechanics crossed the pilot's picket line in 1998.
B. AMFA spent a lot of their energy alienating the other unions on the property, including referring to the IAM rampers as "bag smashers" and "ramp apes".
C. They were not affiliated with the AFL-CIO, and in fact poached the mechanics from an AFL-CIO union.
D. Their negotiating position was that the other employees needed to take larger cuts than the mechanics because mechanics are "special".
E. All of the above.

Now I'll ask again. What do you think the union is going to be able to improve in my office?

Ignoring the wonderful irony of you concluding that I couldn't possibly understand the situation at your company after you open with a long paragraph on your total understanding of the situation at mine...I'll repeat: Doesn't matter. The topic was "lets talk unions". There were some stupid generalizations made here, and I responded to them. I have some experience with unions and offered a counterpoint.

I believe collective bargaining is better than individual bargaining when several members of a class & craft work for the same company.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I think I struck a bit of a nerve!

S'okay. I got others. I connect them together to generate coherent thought. You should try it.

After making this post you tell me to that I have nothing to add the discussion? ROFL!!!!!! What a joke! What did your post prove?

Umm...it wasn't intended to prove anything. Was it supposed to?

HMMMMM? Interesting that you are an NWA pilot. Ask your brothers and sisters on furlough how they like ALPA. Better yet I'm sure Midlantic II aka Compass is going to make them feel better.

If we can get them the newest version of the Gimptron 3030 they should feel wonderful.

For all your rederick it comes down to ALPA works for you personally. Hooray for you. I know several NWA pilots on furlough who wouldn't think so highly of ALPA.

Who is "red erick" and what relation is he to me? I've heard of "Erik The Red", but there's no "red erick" in my lineage.

For you specifically OCD. Is there a diference between NWA ALPA and say PCL's dipsatcher's TWU union. Well, there's a difernece in membership by about 5,000 (give or take a few hundred) to say 30 or 40? Years and years of being an established union vs. there first contract. Different profession. Being out on the line vs. in HQ. I think you get the point. Or then again you probobly don't since you are too self absorbed.

NWA does not employ any "dipsatchers". We have a few "dip $h!ts"...but no dipsatchers.

Off my soap box. No go ahead and pick apart my post. Go ahead. I know you want to and can't resist. I'm done arguing with someone who reads posts and yet doesn't comprehend anything said by anyone else. Besides I'm sure you are dying for the last word. I for one don't need it.

I wish I could comprehend it! Had it been written when you were sober, or after your 13th birthday I might have had more luck with it. And don't feel bad...I used a soap box to reach the faucet when I was little, too.

(How'd I do?)

 

[ShutupandFly]

Gee Wally...I wonder why none of the OTHER unions at NWA honored the AMFA picket line? Let's see if you can choose the correct answer:

A. The mechanics crossed the pilot's picket line in 1998.
B. AMFA spent a lot of their energy alienating the other unions on the property, including referring to the IAM rampers as "bag smashers" and "ramp apes".
C. They were not affiliated with the AFL-CIO, and in fact poached the mechanics from an AFL-CIO union.
D. Their negotiating position was that the other employees needed to take larger cuts than the mechanics because mechanics are "special".
E. All of the above.

What ever helps you sleep at night.