Lets talk unions....

[ShutupandFly]

the Union has not done anything bad yet everything that has happened negative has been the company and only the company... Remember the union can't do anything until the contract is in. So if you want someone to blame, Blame management who has made the situation what it is. Remember good managed companies don't even come to having a union vote..
Company is going to continue to punish yje workforce for voting the union in... and don't believe that if you get rid of the union that things will be back to being jolly.... oh in the eyes of management you have disrespected them so now they have to prove they are the boss
En Mort Main

You know what really gets me is the way people think the managers we work for are really out to stick it to us any chance they get. I have worked for several companies in and out of the airline industry and you can find these people at each one. Of course they will all have examples of how better things are at another company, and you know for a fact there is somone at that other company with the same complaints. My God do you really think your boss sits up at night thinking of ways to screw you over. I got a tip for you, your not that important.

 

[405]

the Union has not done anything bad yet everything that has happened negative has been the company and only the company... Remember the union can't do anything until the contract is in. So if you want someone to blame, Blame management who has made the situation what it is. Remember good managed companies don't even come to having a union vote..

You said it. They haven't done anything bad. Yet. They're not really impressing me so far though. What's with all of the secrecy? I'd like the see the contract they've come up with. I bet you money it has zero substance to it. They are simply trying to get their foot in the door. I don't trust them. They're screwing with my finances and I'm not really happy about it.

According to you I am supposed to blame the company for the absolutely atrocious working conditions and shortage of personnel we have now. That's completely stupid. It's not the company's fault people are dropping like flies. This whole thing is a license for management to screw with us and guess what? They are. If you want to blame anyone for this blame the responsible party.

Company is going to continue to punish yje workforce for voting the union in... and don't believe that if you get rid of the union that things will be back to being jolly.... oh in the eyes of management you have disrespected them so now they have to prove they are the boss
En Mort Main

I'll try to translate what I think you were trying to say. Hope you didnt pae two much for that coledge degree, dood. No, you're definitely correct that nothing will ever go back to the way it was. That's done. We'll continue to be the civilian regional airline dispatch office that's more strict than any military unit/command I was was ever assigned to. As I've said before, a narrow-minded slim majority has ruined an office that was once decent to work in. Thanks.

 

[405]

And now back to the subject...

What does a union really do for 30 employees? I can see a 1000+ pilots needing collective bargaining but what really are they going to do for us as dispatchers? Has a union really made that much of a difference at a dispatch office anywhere? Please provide examples if you have any. Everyone I've talked to that worked in union shops as dispatchers said they didn't do anything but leech money which ties into my argument that all a union is these days is a business.

 

[Occam's Razor]

What does a union really do for 30 employees? I can see a 1000+ pilots needing collective bargaining but what really are they going to do for us as dispatchers?

You raise a good point. The size of the company and the size of the represented employee group are signficant factors. A large company with departments set against each other in a effort to "name that tune" in the fewest notes (meet goals with the smallest budget and lowest headcount) seem to foment the need for collective bargaining more than smaller companies that feature engaged top-level management.

Has a union really made that much of a difference at a dispatch office anywhere? Please provide examples if you have any.

TWU at NWA. Dan Berg led them through a difficult time of concessions that resulted in a profitable stock position, better workrules, and (try not to laugh) windows so they could actually see the weather outside in MSP!

 

[En Mort Main]

The dispathers need to ball up and show how important they are but as long as you have manager loving weaklings in the position they will always be pushed around if there is a union in place or not. Grow a back bone and show management they can't work without dispatchers. But i know that will never happen so why don't we all just shut up and work two or three sectors and believe management in everything they say that their improving...how those names coming along
En Mort Main

 

[405]

The dispathers need to ball up and show how important they are but as long as you have manager loving weaklings in the position they will always be pushed around if there is a union in place or not. Grow a back bone and show management they can't work without dispatchers. But i know that will never happen so why don't we all just shut up and work two or three sectors and believe management in everything they say that their improving...how those names coming along
En Mort Main

What would've been better is if you and your co-workers would've used your collective back bones and your brains, done some research and looked at the entire situation from a different angle. Making a decision based on one person's perspective and opinions isn't really that intelligent.

 

[En Mort Main]

I'm glad you have your point of view and managements in mind what about the "majority" that voted yes. What about their point of view? Guess that doesn't matter as much as managements right.
En Mort Main

 

[405]

I'm glad you have your point of view and managements in mind what about the "majority" that voted yes. What about their point of view? Guess that doesn't matter as much as managements right.
En Mort Main

I don't think you work here anymore.

Why do you care?

 

[Occam's Razor]

According to you I am supposed to blame the company for the absolutely atrocious working conditions and shortage of personnel we have now.

Um...yeah. The people that MANAGE the operation are typically the one's responsible for the headcount and working conditions. If your managers aren't responsible for those, then exactly what are they doing to earn their pay?

That's completely stupid. It's not the company's fault people are dropping like flies.

al-Zarqawi?

Nope...he's assumed room temprature.

Jimmy Hoffa?

Ditto!

The people tasked with setting the objectives and influencing the morale of the workplace?

Naaaaah!

The management of your company is responsible for everything your company does, or fails to do. In their quest to do things, they sometimes don't put the needs/wants/expectations of all employees on their list of priorities. Over the years, several employee groups have come to understand that it's better to band together to ensure those priorities are considered when the managers make decisions...then it is to try to assert employee priorities individually.

The issue at your shop seems to be whether or not 30 dispatchers can come to any agreement on the common objectives and priorities for the group. If you can't, no union on earth can help you.

Good luck!

 

[SKC]

405, while I don't really have a strong position either way, you ABSOLUTELY blame the company for any and all problems with the working environment. There are no other possible entities to blame. If a union contract has not been ratified, the company is the one and only group that has control over equipment, building mx, staffing, pay, parking, benefits, dress code, promotions, etc.

 

[En Mort Main]

well at least some people understand

En Mort Main

 

[405]

I assume all of you know what our working conditions were like four or five years ago compared to the way they were before August 2005. I'm sure all of you are aware of what conditions are like now. You're all correct in saying that our working conditions are management's responsibility. I would assume I am incorrect in saying that the union getting voted in has any effect on working conditions. Comments?

Mort, since you know so much, what was it like four or five years ago in our office?

 

[void]

Has it been the same management for the last 4-5 years or have there been management changes? eg same dispatch manager or Director of SOC?

 

[dispatchguy]

I came back here just to see what is happening in the Flightinfo world, as I have thankfully been out of the airline biz since Feb, with no looking back (kinda hard to now, as I voluntarily surrendered my ADX back in Feb).

As for unions - if you are in a large shop, about the only good thing about unions is that if you screw up, instead of doing a carpet dance on your own, you'll have the union to back you.

When I was at EGF, all of the Caribbean dispatchers (all 10 or so of us) received LOIs because the POI in SJU was a complete idiot and didnt know the FLAG rules pertaining to navigation equipment required for an extended overwater flight (this was when dispatch was still in DFW). Long story short, the union and the company argued that what all of the dispatchers had done was 100% legal, and the LOIs went away. Even though I was no longer in the EGF office, the Union still argued on my behalf, and we all prevailed over an idiot POI.

Reading this thread reminds me of why I got out of the industry. Take it from me, life is way too short to not be happy in what youre doing for a job. At my last job I was making a whopping 14.42 an hour as a dispatcher, ops controller, crew babysitter, DX trainer and check dispatcher and Eagle Key User. If you wouldve told me when I got out of HS 20 or so years ago that in 20 years I would be making only 14 bucks and change an hour; I wouldve said you were higher than a kite.

All regional airlines suck to varying degrees, some just suck harder than others

 

[405]

Has it been the same management for the last 4-5 years or have there been management changes? eg same dispatch manager or Director of SOC?

It's been the same director and manager for the last two years or so. Before that we had a new manager and director every year.

 

[405]

well at least some people understand

En Mort Main

You don't know how much better it had gotten because you were there for less than a year.

Good luck in whatever you do.

 

[ShutupandFly]

I'm glad you have your point of view and managements in mind what about the "majority" that voted yes. What about their point of view? Guess that doesn't matter as much as managements right.
En Mort Main

That "majority" is no longer here. They seem to be leaving the company as fast as they can. Seems they don't have much faith in the union they voted in.

 

[405]

That "majority" is no longer here. They seem to be leaving the company as fast as they can. Seems they don't have much faith in the union they voted in.

Yep, that majority has left the building and most of them left long ago. Their M.O. is vote yes and leave us the mess it seems.

 

[D'Angelo]

Yep, that majority has left the building and most of them left long ago. Their M.O. is vote yes and leave us the mess it seems.

yes the fact of the matter is that angry people just love votin in a union. You see most don't even plan on sticking around they just want to "stick it to the man" one last time. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

 

[Markm1811]

I resemble that remark 405

405,

fact is the people that were pushiing the yes vote were seen by many as the knowledgable experienced dispatchers in nonconnah. Some people like me questioned and tried to get a balanced reply to which way to vote. most did not.. some i am sure voted knowing they were outa there.. you have to admit the information was not exactly free flowing from the company and sure I did even buy into the union stuff because they came an spoke about stuff.

How did I vote .. irrelevant.. Fact is that the negotiations could have been better organised except no one stood against your intrepid (and bitter) leader.. why they are sharing no information who knows. Hope you are still working on removal... its the only way ..

Heard you all had another exodus ?!!!

Regards,
Midnight Brit
Going Going Gone..