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Lets talk unions....

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Hold West said:
Yep - unions interefere with management's right to: wantonly fire people, sexually harass them, age discriminate, overwork and underpay, lie, violate environmental and labor laws, violate OSHA requirements, cheat the public, hire illegals, on and on.... They HATE that.

As a dirty member of management who has worked in both union (predominately Teamster) and non-union environments, I can with out a doubt say union employees are much easier to manipulate then non-union ones.

For example at one company the union would actively assist us in firing people with less than 10yrs seniority. This was because they knew the person was being eliminated but not the job so they could gain another initiation fee, they wouldn’t have to pay any pension benefits (even though the party had paid in for several years), etc. The ease in contract negotiations was directly correlated to how much assistance we could provide the union (not the employees) in making $$$. Every contract I have ever seen includes the provision for forced overtime (though done by seniority), granted everyone wanted extra $$$ it was never an issue but legally we could force and the worker would have to accept the overtime; you can’t do that to a non-union employee.

In terms of firing people it is a lot easier to do in a union environment because the work rules are covered in a contract, merely find somebody breaking a rule and fire them. Generally after 2-3 trips down the hall and they lose their job and really have no legal recourse. With non-union employees you have a greater potential for a lawsuit and because often times work rules are loosely implemented (Timmy is always late but because he is a good worker doesn’t get in trouble, but Billy is late 3-4 times and gets fired).

Non union workers tend to be better able to switch jobs so you have to work a bit harder to hold onto them as people compete for them. Union workers have standard pensions so they are less likely to leave so you can treat them like ********************. While they tend to earn better initially in the long run they tend to earn less then their non-union counterparts but by the time that happens they would have to lose pensions and start again at the bottom of the ladder so they are stuck.

Because again Union workers are tied to benefits packages it is very easy to get them to vote on whatever you want through wage/benefit scales. Tell your current workers you will give them a raise in exchange for screwing new hires and you can pretty much get whatever you want. Tell them if they don’t give you what you want that you will kill their pension and they will agree to anything. No employee union or non-union really gives a ******************** about his fellow worker only his own direct benefit so he will gladly screw another employee over if it benefits him. The beauty of a union is you don’t have to individually get 1,000 people to screw each other over you can just present a document and get them all to screw each other at once!

Union threatens to strike, its no problem just lock them out and hire replacements (be sure to unionize them so instead of having to control 1,000’s of individuals you only have to control a couple union officials and repeat the process).

Personally I really don’t see any good served by unions, in most cases they are worse then the employer.
 
Thanks for sharing, Mr. Icahn!

You had me at, "As a dirty member of management..."

No ulterior motive here...no sir!

 
Occam's Razor said:
Thanks for sharing, Mr. Icahn!

You had me at, "As a dirty member of management..."


No ulterior motive here...no sir!

No sentence to sentence breakdown of AC560's post, Occam? What's wrong?

His post kind of stunned you, didn't it?
 
405 said:
No sentence to sentence breakdown of AC560's post, Occam? What's wrong?

His post kind of stunned you, didn't it?

"Stunned"?

Hardly. I expect my dog to bark and pee on the lawn. I expect my congressman to say he's "working hard" for me. I expect a management drone to state he doesn't like unions.

It's in his interest to promote an anti-union agenda.

Are YOU stunned?

If so, we may need to start at a more elemental level in our discussion on unions and unionism.
 
Occam's Razor said:
"Stunned"?

Hardly. I expect my dog to bark and pee on the lawn. I expect my congressman to say he's "working hard" for me. I expect a management drone to state he doesn't like unions.

It's in his interest to promote an anti-union agenda.

Are YOU stunned?

If so, we may need to start at a more elemental level in our discussion on unions and unionism.

Unions don't work anymore.

You obviously didn't like AC's post. It shows.

A union is a business. A union is a middle-man. I don't need a middle-man. It's all about money and power. They are making money off your dues and paying out exhorbitant salaries from this, but I assume you don't care. You have ALPA. Everything is all good with them.

I will state this for the fourth or fifth time for you since you cannot seem to get it through your thick egotistical, self-important skull: 30 people don't need a godd*mn union. What part of this is so difficult for you to grasp? They will not do anything for us.
 
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Well...most of the 30 people voted for one. What part of THAT is so hard for you to grasp?

A doctor is a "business" too. DIY brain surgery is not a good idea. (We'll consider you "Exhibit A")

A lawyer is a "business". DIY defense for criminal/tort cases is not a good idea.

A union is a "business". DIY contract negotiations is not a good idea.

Can you grasp any of that?
 
A large percentage of that 50% is gone. Decertification is the key word now.

As I have said more than once, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You continue to have no idea.

Fraternally,

405
 
Occam's Razor said:
Well...most of the 30 people voted for one. What part of THAT is so hard for you to grasp?

A doctor is a "business" too. DIY brain surgery is not a good idea. (We'll consider you "Exhibit A")

A lawyer is a "business". DIY defense for criminal/tort cases is not a good idea.

A union is a "business". DIY contract negotiations is not a good idea.

Can you grasp any of that?

Well.. yes... most of the 30 voted for it. Most of them have left now. They thought management was being unfair. They weren't being unfair. As I said, you do NOT know the full story. You continue to blindly defend a group you don't know.

You're reaching with the doctor/lawyer thing. It's a loose cannon argument.

Try again.
 
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Occam's Razor said:
A union is a "business". DIY contract negotiations is not a good idea.

That's your opinion.

Stick with your ALPA, slick.
 
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