Let the rumours FLY ....

[jonjuan]

jonjuan if you are going to make a comparison and provide a link at least make it accurate the flight from hpn to sua was 3:26 and the flight from ttn to rsw was 3:13 both with strong headwinds. Not surprised someone on here would fudge the numbers. The best is you put the CJ3 numbers tulsa to palm springs with a tail wind. nice comparison. The reality is the piaggio would do 380 knots cruise compared to the cj3 at 404. thats pretty close.

BS man-quit spinning the truth. I am looking at scheduled vs. scheduled speeds with head/tail winds excluded. Apples to apples shows an average p180 flight TAS at 360-360 where the cj3 is 410-415 on ANY flights over 2 hours. Big difference.
Look for yourself:
http://flightaware.com/live/fleet/VNR

http://flightaware.com/live/fleet/FIV

 

[HazMat]

Facts you blatantly lied about the flight times of what you posted by a large amount. I clicked on the link you provided in your last post and you lied end of story. The average speed is 360 to 360? Look I fly the airplane I know how fast it is. Spin away

 

[SharkBait]

Might work well if one wanted to replace an aging fleet-- say a beechjet? But what to do about acquiring trained pilots?

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

BROKEFLYER: yup, I think the Union bus should get over to avantair right away and get those boys paid well.

ME: I agree. $40,000 for a 3rd year pilot is retarded.

 

[brokeflyer]

BROKEFLYER: yup, I think the Union bus should get over to avantair right away and get those boys paid well.

ME: I agree. $40,000 for a 3rd year pilot is retarded.

holy hell, what is first year?

 

[corpflunkie]

1. $35k
2. $42k
3. $44k
4. $46k

BTDI likes to twist things a bit. Not going to argue that the payrates don't still need some adjusting, but give it time.

 

[HazMat]

This is FO pay typically you are upgrading to captain by year 3 or 4 were you are making a whole lot more. There have been several posts in other threads showing that due to the quicker upgrades the salaries over time are not far off from netjets. More importantly pilots that started a year or two or three ago are still here. No furloughs

 

[Club ORD FO]

the quick upgrade story is exactly what JO told the world about Mesa pay rates

 

[CRJFlyer]

This is FO pay typically you are upgrading to captain by year 3 or 4 were you are making a whole lot more. There have been several posts in other threads showing that due to the quicker upgrades the salaries over time are not far off from netjets. More importantly pilots that started a year or two or three ago are still here. No furloughs

Rrrriiiggghhhtttt..Wow unbelievable... At a 4 year point at NJA I'd have made in the area of 320K Not including tips/OT/per diem..(which we all know is real income for us)..

At the 4 year point at Avan. what would we be looking at...167K plus extra's, which cannot be anywhere close to the extra's at NJA..Now even if you upgraded quicker at Avan. it would still take years and years to equal NJA FO pay over the same time period...Thats assuming your Cpt. make more than 80+ grand a year..and remember NJA FO pay still increases..(our contract goes to the ten year point and tops out at maybe 105K??) Did I mention 401k conributions?

And thats also assuming everyone upgrades at year 3-4 at Avan. forever...And in my 10 years as a professional pilot I've got 9 1/2 years as an SIC, thats right...approximately 5000 out 5400 jets hrs are as SIC because of that almighty 4 year upgrade that never happened!!!

I don't know anyone at Avantair, and I'm glad everyone is happy there, but don't get on your horse and say how because you can upgrade there at year 4 you'll actually be better off. Because we all know how that'll play out...Bottom line, you have to pay your FO's more...and not give them the short end of your shaft because of a promise of upgrade..

And in the end, whenever I get called back, and whenever the next NJA TA comes about I'll be expecting a very large FO raise, because I'll have 6-10 years there longetivity wise and will want to be paid accordingly. No matter what seat I'm in.

No matter what happens at NJA (I'm furloughed) I'm still way ahead of where I would have been anywhere else $$wise.

 

[glasspilot]

I guess we do need that union bus...as long as it comes with someone on it that can explain to me as well as he explained to you how "furloughed" makes you better off.

 

[HazMat]

I dont know what they feed these folks Let me say it this way, a pilot who has been here (Avantair) 6 years is making 81k a year. Our per diem is 2.00. A 6 year pilot at Netjets makes 72,746. Your per diem 1.70. If we both started 5, 6, 7 years ago The Avantair pilot today is making more. Thats just the fact. Look at the websites like willflyforfood, etc. Plus, once again we have not furloughed.

 

[FastJP4]

I dont know what they feed these folks Let me say it this way, a pilot who has been here (Avantair) 6 years is making 81k a year. Our per diem is 2.00. A 6 year pilot at Netjets makes 72,746. Your per diem 1.70. If we both started 5, 6, 7 years ago The Avantair pilot today is making more. Thats just the fact. Look at the websites like willflyforfood, etc. Plus, once again we have not furloughed.

From APC:


Avantair at 6 years: CA 81,000 FO 43,000 + COLA

NetJets at 6 years: CA 103,923 FO 72,746


Not sure if APC's numbers are wholly accurate or not, but if they're remotely close - someone needs to go back and examine their basic math skills. I do give props (no pun intended) that Avantair hasn't layed off. But then again NJ's is more than 10 times the size of Avantair.

 

[HazMat]

At six years at Avantair you are a Captain. 6 years at NetJets you are an FO. Why is this so hard? The idea is if we started at the same time 4,5,6,7 or how many years before you upgrade we are making more because we are making Captains salary. 1,2,3,4,5,.... year captains pay at Netjets is a farce it is unattainable. Nice to talk about and a great way for managment to compare salaries and then have a backroom laugh.

 

[RJ Bum]

At six years at Avantair you are a Captain. 6 years at NetJets you are an FO. Why is this so hard? The idea is if we started at the same time 4,5,6,7 or how many years before you upgrade we are making more because we are making Captains salary. 1,2,3,4,5,.... year captains pay at Netjets is a farce it is unattainable. Nice to talk about and a great way for managment to compare salaries and then have a backroom laugh.

I hope you're joking!!! If not, that is exactly the same short sighted thinking that has ruined the rest of the industry. How long do you think those "quick" upgrade will last? Soon it'll be, "oh that's ok, AA is just a 'stepping stone."

 

[BoilerUP]

I know a guy who just got furloughed that cleared over $100k in 2009 as a 3rd year NJA FO.

 

[Jack Campbell]

Unlikely for him to earn that much. He either got very lucky with after-midnights or was padding his numbers. He had to earn over 20% over his 18 Day schedule in overtime.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

RJ: I hope you're joking!!! If not, that is exactly the same short sighted thinking that has ruined the rest of the industry. How long do you think those "quick" upgrade will last?

BTDI: That "quick upgrade" promise only lasted 8 months while I was there. I gave them my 1 year training contract and bailed on them. 1 year upgrades at poverty pay has now become 3-4 year upgrades at poverty pay.

 

[BoilerUP]

Unlikely for him to earn that much. He either got very lucky with after-midnights or was padding his numbers. He had to earn over 20% over his 18 Day schedule in overtime.

He did say he worked the 18-day schedule with a lot of overtime, late pay, holidays, etc.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Unlikely for him to earn that much. He either got very lucky with after-midnights or was padding his numbers. He had to earn over 20% over his 18 Day schedule in overtime.

14% over year 1 when we were busier. Maybe 2 aftermidnights 1 extended day...I cleared 80 first year, and 79 and some change this year..(took the reduced schedule for the summer). didn't pad my numbers at all...18 day schedule (I don't like 7 day trips)

 

[CRJFlyer]

He did say he worked the 18-day schedule with a lot of overtime, late pay, holidays, etc.

I'm glad some people actually read the posts before they respond. In January/Feb '08 we were so busy that I was getting 5-10 hrs OT just for showing up to the airport early.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I know a guy who just got furloughed that cleared over $100k in 2009 as a 3rd year NJA FO.

I was at 2 years 3 months...If I didn't bring home $5200 take home per month I was dissapointed... That was with out OT, contributing 19%, and working approx. 3 six day trips......Typically the only time I made less was during recurrent or sim.

I could definitely see a guy already in his 3rd year working alot bringing home over 6 figures. It may take some after midnights or luckily scheduling but definitely doable. Could also be on a larger fleet.

I'm just dumbfounded anyone would support the idea that it's ok to accept low wages because they feel their peers will just upgrade in 4 years!! That's great Mesa thinking there.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

MESA thinking....LOLOL. By the way.....Avantair's version of "after midnight pay" is "after 4 00 AM pay."

 

[Grizz]

At six years at Avantair you are a Captain. 6 years at NetJets you are an FO.

Incorrect. The most junior Captain at NetJets has been here 4 years and 4 months.

 

[jonjuan]

Incorrect. The most junior Captain at NetJets has been here 4 years and 4 months.

This difference will only change and dramatically. NJA is LUCKY they didn't downgrade as they could have, otherwise the numbers would change once again.

 

[Grizz]

Really jonjuan? Since you profess to be an expert on our CBA, please enlighten me as to how they could have downgraded. I'll be here waiting...

 

[Jack Campbell]

Good to hear some of us were making OT money there. I chose the 7/7 due to family needs and the IBB contract was a great raise. But for me, 2009 saw almost no overtime and only one after midnight. OT increased later in the year and it seemed like the guys who were not furloughed were going to do very well with OT in 2010.

 

[glasspilot]

Good to hear some of us were making OT money there. I chose the 7/7 due to family needs and the IBB contract was a great raise. But for me, 2009 saw almost no overtime and only one after midnight. OT increased later in the year and it seemed like the guys who were not furloughed were going to do very well with OT in 2010.

Really!?? You just said that out loud on a public forum?

 

[fischman]

Really jonjuan? Since you profess to be an expert on our CBA, please enlighten me as to how they could have downgraded. I'll be here waiting...

Me too. I love how arrogant blowholes spew out misinformation like they are experts.

All we need is General Lee and B19, then we'll have a trifecta of know-it-all's. :nuts:

 

[RJ Bum]

Good to hear some of us were making OT money there. I chose the 7/7 due to family needs and the IBB contract was a great raise. But for me, 2009 saw almost no overtime and only one after midnight. OT increased later in the year and it seemed like the guys who were not furloughed were going to do very well with OT in 2010.

Well I want to thank you and everyone else working OT for your support knowing that you are doing everything possible to cover the trips with min. crews while I'm on the street.

 

[RP170]

Well I want to thank you and everyone else working OT for your support knowing that you are doing everything possible to cover the trips with min. crews while I'm on the street.

Be nice if the "F" word was used every time guys were going to go over 12 hours of duty wouldn't it?

Check out the letter IPA wrote to the UPS pilots in the Cargo section of the boards here. That's how it should be done.

NJASAP won't risk the chance of the company claiming that they are proposing an "illegal job action" by telling people not to pick up OT, extended days, etc. Have unions really been stripped of all their power in this country?