Let the rumours FLY ....

[gutshotdraw]

Even his crystal ball is a little fuzzy on that one. Mine is cracked...

 

[Trash8Mofo]

That is exactly what DS promised when he came on board: To transform Netjets from a family business to a Corporate business. There were a lot of "paying back" under RTS to people and businesses that helped RTS built Netjets. Well, the paying back is over and all the middlemen (Marquis), over charged catering/limo services/FBO/etc etc would have to be re-evaluated.

My guess is once the streamlining is over, Netjets would push out some very aggressive and competitive cards/ownership plans, which will make our competitors ask themselves "why are we in the fractional business? aren't we an airplane manufacturer?"

Consolidation may happen then under 2 circumstances:
1) A competitor on the verge on going Ch.7, and Netjets may play the white knight and avoid giving fractional a bad name, and at the same time scoop up some entry level customers.

2) The advantages of having a fractional as a Trojan horse is outweighed by the distraction and financial burden to the manufacturers.

So I don't see any recalls until 1 or 2 happened, or Dow shoots up past 15K. IMHO.

 

[NJAowner]

My guess is #1 won't happen. NJ does not need to save from getting a bad name. If a competitor it just further reinforces the marketing campaign of "stability" and "a BH company".

BTW, a bankruptcy of a fractional, who may go out of business is a real black hole for an owner. Worst case scenario, at the end of the proceedings, an owner owns 1/8 of a jet with many other people he doesn't even know, and they could (but probably not) be left on their own. Scarry.

 

[glasspilot]

I would imagine that if a frac went chapter 7 that the owners of the aircraft would be treated like a married couple getting a divorce.

If the parties agree on what to do then fine...do that (keep it, one buys the others out, sell it, whatever).

If they don't agree then a judge could just order the asset sold and split the proceeds. Might be a problem if one or more owners have financed their share and are upside down as the lender would surely have a problem with the collateral going away. But this sort of thing must have happened before (time shares or whatever) so there should be precedent on what would happen in that case.

Does that sound about right?

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I'm for renaming the merged company: Flexible Executive Travel Options

 

[cldsfr79]

Maybe NJ brings Marquis in house. No change to the Marquis customers, no new aircraft, NJ already handles owners services and everything but marketing (and NJ salesmen already represent Marquis as well) and NJ can handle the card business.

Plus, my guess is Marquis has an issue with a mismatch of owning shares and having a multiyear commitment but only selling cards in 1 year (or less) pieces. Generally, it would be called a mismatch of maturities between your assets and liabilities. if this is true, NJ can buy Marquis on the cheap since Marquis would already have a huge liability to NJ.

I'm thinking this is the closest idea that could occur if we acquired or merged with another company. It makes complete sense. They are already our customers. Why not profit off of what the Marquis charges for a card. We would use our own core fleet that we have now to sell cards.

However, if we were going to merge with another fractional, I would think Avant Air. They actually have been growing from what I understand during this down turn in the economy. This would allow us to access entry level customers that would like to move up to a jet or have the option of upgrading to a larger plane if they need to.

 

[NJAowner]

Aa

However, if we were going to merge with another fractional, I would think Avant Air. They actually have been growing from what I understand during this down turn in the economy. This would allow us to access entry level customers that would like to move up to a jet or have the option of upgrading to a larger plane if they need to.

It could also have the opposite effect. If NJ had the Piaggio and it was part of NetJets' operations (and this is not to be taken as a negative against AA), many owners in the Excel, Encore/Ultra and 400XP fleets may move down. If it was run by NJ, I would move some of my Excel hours to the Piaggio for our shorter trips.

I do not believe the bulk of AA's growth is from introducing people to private aviation. If I recall from some of their investor materials, a large chunk of its new business is owners stepping down from jet fractionals. In the current economy there are not too many people buying into private aviation for the first time at any level.

 

[SDCFI]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Netjets cannot just buy the customers of another fractional without the airplanes in their contracts. So barring a CH7 fire sale it would pretty much have to be a card program unless NJA is willing to absorb another carriers fleet, and that would probably create many more problems than it would solve.

 

[fischman]

I'd say it depends on who has the better lawyers.

 

[LAZYB]

I'd say it depends on who has the better lawyers.

That's an oxymoron isn't it...

 

[fischman]

Your avatar freaks me out. :nuts:

 

[avantairowner]

The loss of Market share to a competitor is the exact reason you would want to buy them. Netjets would not want to see Avantair merge with someone else. I would be willing to bet that Netjets management is keeping a close eye on Avantair. Just imagine if Flight Options bought them and rebranded themselves thats a whole different ball game for Netjets. The market share already lost would balloon. Avantair is sitting in really good position. Very smart management they have positioned themselves well.

 

[brokeflyer]

yup, I think the Union bus should get over to avantair right away and get those boys paid well.

 

[shanes123]

i believe there paid very well for what there Flying..Unless you can post numbers to prove me wrong..The plane is a suped up King air with the props on backwards..

 

[ghostrider64]

FYI, there are many previous NJA owners who now have shares at Avant Air.

 

[BoilerUP]

i believe there paid very well for what there Flying..Unless you can post numbers to prove me wrong..The plane is a suped up King air with the props on backwards..

Sooped-up King Air?

It has a cabin that's closer in size to a Hawker than a 400XP (or any King Air), with cruise speeds not that much slower than an Ultra or CJ3.

 

[jonjuan]

Sooped-up King Air?

It has a cabin that's closer in size to a Hawker than a 400XP (or any King Air), with cruise speeds not that much slower than an Ultra or CJ3.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR159

3 hours, 53 minutes from HPN to SUA? Looks like it's scheduled for 321 knots. Yikes. And why doesn't it like to fly over water flying up/down the east coast?

Here's another:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR175
350 knots filed 3:43 TTN-RSW. Yikes again.

CJ3: 404 knots filed
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FIV413

That's a 15-20% difference. I wouldn't call that "not that much slower."

 

[BoilerUP]

While I'm not the keeper of Avantair...

I'd say the airplane doesn't know the difference between overwater and overland routing, so I'd put that on Avantair dispatch.

As far as the cruise speeds go...you sure picked some long segments (NYC-FL) for the P180 to make your point. If you'd take a look at flights in the 1+30 range, you'd see filed cruise speed in the 375-380kt range...which is 7% slower than the CJ3 flight you listed.

FWIW, the CJ3 should be able to do 410-412kt @ FL400.

 

[shanes123]

My point is that it is a prop airplane cant cross the pond..Cant go coast to coast..How much should a salary on a plane like this command? I am all for high pilot salaries and being paid like the proffesionals that we are..But Avaintair pilots seem well compensated for the equipment there in..there paid better than FLOPS pilots flying Hawkers and Citation Xs

 

[HazMat]

jonjuan if you are going to make a comparison and provide a link at least make it accurate the flight from hpn to sua was 3:26 and the flight from ttn to rsw was 3:13 both with strong headwinds. Not surprised someone on here would fudge the numbers. The best is you put the CJ3 numbers tulsa to palm springs with a tail wind. nice comparison. The reality is the piaggio would do 380 knots cruise compared to the cj3 at 404. thats pretty close.