• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Legal things that aren't safe at all

UnstableAviator

Dual Given.
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Posts
303
Total Time
6000
The "would you take off 25 pounds over gross" thread got me thinking a little bit about why we do some things in aviation that are most likely unsafe yet commonplace. Taking off 25 pounds over gross at seal level is not "unsafe", just not legal. (So don't do it.)

Somethings that popped into my head are:

Single engine night. I know there were several times when flying on those dark cloudy nights when I had NO OUTS. Low altitude, hilly terrain, no moonlight. Engine quits and no chance for restart, I pitch for best glide (or slower to lessen the impact) and hope for the best. Seems like I should get the pants sued off of me for "Careless and Reckless" if someone died in the crash.

Gusty winds on narrow runways. I know it is more of a skill thing that can't be quantified, but watching some people land on a <30' wide runway with gusty crosswinds definately isn't safe. Some pilots have no problem, but the weekend warrior is asking for bent metal.

Single vacuum pump IMC. I know we train for it, and I didn't have any problem flying partial panel, but recognizing the failure (when not equipped with flags) during a high-workload time such as departure or the approach doesn't seem like a very good situation to find yourself in.

Flying VFR with 3 miles vis. Done it before, even if I'm familiar with the area, it isn't easy to navigate. Forget looking for traffic, all your attention is focused on looking for the airport/terrain/etc.

Special VFR. It has a time and place, but I know we've all heard people getting it when better judgement says otherwise.

Light twins that can't climb on one. I know this is probably most light twins out there, but everytime we takeoff that is a risk that has somehow been deemed acceptable. Charts say you'll get 50'/min or so, but I know the loaded Navajo doesn't stand a chance. Hence the takeoff briefing which includes a prayer for letting the engines run for 2 minutes. I know I've said that prayer before.

I'm just thinking outloud, comments welcome.
 

UnAnswerd

Activity Terminated
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Posts
607
Total Time
NA
Ultralight flying!!! No prior training? No certificate? You built it in your moms garage with some scrap steel, an $80 MIG welder, and a lawnmower engine??? You're legal to fly!!!
 
Last edited:

Tarzan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Posts
2,073
Total Time
.
UnstableAviator said:
Light twins that can't climb on one.

Single engines can't climb when they one also. Unsafe? We still takeoff in them. It's just an acceptable risk. Just like getting in your car and driving around Atlanta.

Don't let that stuff sit on your brain. You'll have yourself freaked out by the end of the day and wandering around bumping into things.

But too add on to the list, flying in Class G at 600 AGL in IMC. Uncontrolled airspace right? Flying on instrument rules? Stupid but legal right?
 
Last edited:

Occam's Razor

Risible...ALWAYS risible
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Posts
2,551
Total Time
16K+
UnstableAviator said:
I'm just thinking outloud, comments welcome.

Off the top of my head:

1. Flying with the Chief Pilot
2. 2 IP's flying together.
3. An Air Wing fly-off! (There's not a tailhooker alive that doesn't have a "fly-off" story that makes him/her shake their head)
4. Tailwind landings on 27 at SAN.
5. Flying B757-300's in/out of MDW.
 

ISaidRightTurns

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Posts
154
Total Time
1500
I lost one in a 55 baron once. As I remember it wasn't a sudden and total loss of power. I think it ran very well for having a cracked cylinder all things considered. I would say most aircraft engines as desinged with an inflight failure in mind. I wasn't gonna get home before it blew totally, but I think the extra 2 or 3 minutes it would have run shoul I have needed it would be very helpful.


I'm sure it is possible to lose all power in a very short period of time (something mechanical, not fuel, ice , etc), I wouldn't think it was very common.
 

EagleRJ

Are we there yet?
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
1,490
Total Time
5800
A 121 carrier flying into an uncontrolled field.

An alternate 20nm away from your destination.

The unofficial "Charted Visual" to Runway 17 at KSPS.

Flowbacks.

Deferrable nosewheel steering.

The nine hour rest rule.


1. Flying with the Chief Pilot

LOL! No kidding...
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
Driving a car aint safe either, but I wouldn't recommend exceeding design limitations on them either.

How many owners of SUV's have looked in their owner manuals to read what the weight limitations are or what the stopping distances are? I think they might be surprised to find out that they exceed the limitations more often than they care to know.
 

Denizen

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Posts
177
Total Time
3700
Peeing on an electric fence..legal(unless the farmer catches you) but something that would most likely sting.


Climing an apple tree during grafting season...legal..but a butt-load of rocksalt fromt he angry farmer..*priceless*
 

apcooper

Dude, where's my country?
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Posts
201
Total Time
a lot
Flying 6 approaches under the hood w/safety pilot with holds and course intercepts and then 5 months and 29 days later taking off in 0/0 with LLWS and then at a nearby airport with slightly better WX and flying an ILS to ldg with 200ft and 1/2!
 

apcooper

Dude, where's my country?
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Posts
201
Total Time
a lot
Oh just thought of another one that will certainly top all the previous ideas!! Take a 172 right through a level 5 supercell squall line!! After all there is no FAR against flying a plane straight through a boomer but it would be illegal to fly that same 172 into even light ice!
 

Flywrite

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Posts
770
Total Time
5500
ILS to mins at night at the end of a 16 hour day with 8+ hours of flight time, no autopilot, 19 paying pax onboard.
 

onthebeach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
240
Total Time
10K+
>>Single engine night. I know there were several times when flying on those dark cloudy nights when I had NO OUTS. Low altitude, hilly terrain, no moonlight. Engine quits and no chance for restart, I pitch for best glide (or slower to lessen the impact)<<


Yes, slower. Fly the minimum rate of descent airspeed (what? you don't know it? Read Schiff's *Proficient Pilot* for a discussion) in this case. Gives you more time to troubleshoot, look for a landing area, talk to ATC, say your prayers, or all of the above. Plus the slower you are flying in terms of horizontal as well as vertical speed, the better your chances of surviving "impact," i.e. contact with a surface you do not see.
 

onthebeach

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
240
Total Time
10K+
>>Taking off 25 pounds over gross at seal level is not "unsafe", just not legal. (So don't do it.)<<

Define "unsafe." "Safe" for your life...maybe (see below), but not safe for your certificate if you get ramped. Remember, max gross weight is a limitation.

And, define "sea level." Are you aware that when taking off from KMSY (Elevation 4 ft. MSL) on a 40C day in the rain, the DA is 3000 feet taking into account the temperature alone...plus (roughly) an additional 1000 feet taking into account the humidity? And, you will have the weight and drag of the rainwater on the aircraft surfaces to contend with, plus the vertical impingement load of the rain...not readily calculable, but a factor nonetheless. It might not be "safe" to take off a single at gross weight or even under it in these "sea level" conditions.

Relax, I am not busting your chops, it's just that when someone new to flying reads these posts I am trying to make the point that there is always something more to be considered in the problem...don't get complacent or make assumptions doing something you have done 100 times before.
 

flyifrvfr

Banned
CFII/MEI right seater
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Posts
495
Total Time
725
Putting your face in a fan and saying " Luke I am your Father ". Certainly legal, just not safe.
 

BornAgainPagan

No Gods. No Masters.
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Posts
752
Total Time
????
apcooper said:
Oh just thought of another one that will certainly top all the previous ideas!! Take a 172 right through a level 5 supercell squall line!! After all there is no FAR against flying a plane straight through a boomer but it would be illegal to fly that same 172 into even light ice!

Quite illegal according to ;

The reg that covers all that wasn't covered. 91.13!
 

SkyWestCRJPilot

Now a CAL FO
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Posts
359
Total Time
8500
Having the right side attitude indicator deffered on your Part 135 Chieftain and the MEL requires you to remain day VFR only. So now you fly in the mountainous west scud running below clouds and remaining legally VFR. Makes a lot more sense to be up in the clouds IFR way high above the mountain tops but you can't because your MEL doesn't allow it.
 

PAPA FOX!

Super Bowl bound 2008!!
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Posts
178
Total Time
ME+SE
Joining the Mile High Club without an autopilot as PIC in actual IFR!!! Any of you done that?!!!
 
Last edited:
Top