Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[sydeseet]

Right back at ya.......imp:

I understand that this airplane will single-handedly, wipe Gulfstream off the face of the earth:bomb:

(That should be good for 25 pages )

It's inevitable that a company like Gulfstream with outdated engineering, a boring product line, and absolutely no concept of customer support will be booted off the market by a company like Embraer. The E1000 is only the beginning - I hear the fine folks in Brazil are planning an airplane with a .85M max cruise speed and a 4001NM range. Gulfstream cannot and should not even attempt to keep up with this sort of ingenuity. Customers will start cancelling G450 & 550 orders in droves by the next NBAA get together when Embraer announces their new "Stealth Jungle Jet 1000." (You can't see it behind the service center doors). We in the falcon family don't even answer the phone anymore when the Savannah crew calls just in case a call from Brazil is in the works - gotta keep that line clear after all. It's only a matter of time my friends and the future don't look too pretty.:uzi:

It's a shame GV washed out of school but I think it's for the best.:crying:





That should add an additional 25 pages. This could top the "Keep it going" thead.

 

[rice]

Now thats some funny $hit!!!!!:laugh:

 

[LegacyDriver]

Okay, I'll bite, but we should probably move this to a new thread called "LINEAGE BASH FEST".

- E-170/190 first EASA certified aircraft.

- HGS, CAT III, Autoland Capability Installed and CERTIFIED

- Unlike the BBJ and ACJ, the airplane has a lot of baggage space. You want baggage space in the BBJ and ACJ you trade off fuel from what I am told. Not on the 190.

- 0.82M, FL410, 4,200NM

- Lineage $40.95m complete for 19 pax interior. Compare that to a DA900EX or a G450. Lineage pretty good deal all the way around it seems.

- The Lineage is going to have the steep approach certification just like the Legacy.... Will the G450 go into London City?

- Someone is bashing on the 170's avionics... All I can say is, Embraer delivered their airplane on time and in working order. EASy and PLANEVIEW, though wonderful (I have seen the Gulfstream's and it was awesome) were plagued with development issues and delays from what I understand. Embraer supported their customers ON SITE, too, and worked very hard to address and resolve the issues its clients were concerned about.

 

[BlueCanoe]

...apologies...

Dear corporate aviation:

We at RAH are deeply apologetic for firing (or under his description "resigning") "Legacy Driver" and unleashing him on your world and forums. Although we weren't sad to see him go, we figured the flight levels would be safe. His attempt at going undercover failed merely due to the fact that his writing style hasn't changed since his "Skull-1" days and his Bedford quote is still in his tagline.

With sincere humbleness, we beg your forgiveness.

BlueCanoe

 

[banned username 2]

Dear corporate aviation:

We at RAH are deeply apologetic for firing (or under his description "resigning") "Legacy Driver" and unleashing him on your world and forums. Although we weren't sad to see him go, we figured the flight levels would be safe. His attempt at going undercover failed merely due to the fact that his writing style hasn't changed since his "Skull-1" days and his Bedford quote is still in his tagline.

With sincere humbleness, we beg your forgiveness.

BlueCanoe

EVERYONE knows that LegacyDriver is in fact Skull-1... He was "outed" many months ago and has been given a reprieve with the understanding that he will behave...

 

[mzaharis]

- Unlike the BBJ and ACJ, the airplane has a lot of baggage space. You want baggage space in the BBJ and ACJ you trade off fuel from what I am told. Not on the 190.

- 0.82M, FL410, 4,200NM

But if you only have enough tanks in a BBJ or ACJ for 4,200 NM of range (range with all 10 aux. tanks is 6,000 NM for the BBJ - I believe that you could leave most of them out and still reach 4,200NM), wouldn't you have plenty of cargo space? Not a big deal, but just trying to compare something closer to "apples to apples".

Wouldn't a better comparison be that new A318-based CJ? Probably in a similar price ballpark (thought I read somewhere that it goes for 45 mil or so - I believe that this is the finished price, but I could be wrong), 4,000 NM range, 5,000 sq ft. (about 5% less range, 20% more floor space than the Lineage)?

EDITED FOR NEW PRICE INFO

 

[LegacyDriver]

EVERYONE knows that LegacyDriver is in fact Skull-1... He was "outed" many months ago and has been given a reprieve with the understanding that he will behave...

Thanks Falcon. I was wondering if we should welcome BlueCanoe to June 2005. Glad he finally caught up.

 

[LegacyDriver]

But if you only have enough tanks in a BBJ or ACJ for 4,200 NM of range (range with all 10 aux. tanks is 6,000 NM for the BBJ - I believe that you could leave most of them out and still reach 4,200NM), wouldn't you have plenty of cargo space? Not a big deal, but just trying to compare something closer to "apples to apples".

Wouldn't a better comparison be that new A318-based CJ? Probably in a similar price ballpark (thought I read somewhere that it goes for 45 mil or so - I believe that this is the finished price, but I could be wrong), 4,000 NM range, 5,000 sq ft. (about 5% less range, 20% more floor space than the Lineage)?

EDITED FOR NEW PRICE INFO

I will have to defer to the BBJ and ACJ experts on this one. But I feel my original point is still valid in that the Lineage (I hate that name) is pretty competitive in that market and has its own set of advantages.

 

[fokkerjet]

WSCoD approved for LCY, but not a Gulfstream What's up with that?

Fokker 70 /100 is certified for autoland, it's able CAT III, plus it's approved for LCY. :beer:

 

[BlueCanoe]

I'd drop my 170 for a G1159 anything anyday....

 

[LegacyDriver]

Considering the folks you work with didn't have the stones to demand a decent contract...

Considering, as a result, the folks you work for pay you 21 bucks an hour to fly it...

I can't say I blame you.

 

[G21Agoose]

I apologise- I am just too tired (and not that good a reader) to bother to read the answers on this thread. But correct me if I'm wrong- isn't a Legacy just a commuter with a fancy paint job? But whizzing along @ 0.73 must be a thrill- man, can they now make jets go that fast?

 

[Groundpounder]

Here is a photo of some folks running in terror from the beast known as the WSCoD!

http://myaviation.net/?pid=00695676

 

[LegacyDriver]

I apologise- I am just too tired (and not that good a reader) to bother to read the answers on this thread. But correct me if I'm wrong- isn't a Legacy just a commuter with a fancy paint job? But whizzing along @ 0.73 must be a thrill- man, can they now make jets go that fast?

You are wrong and may stand corrected on all counts.

M 0.73? Ha! Never happens.


Bottom line: I'd rather be going .795 M in a big comfy jet than .92 M in a shoebox.

 

[Mercury]

76 pages on this thread...Holy $hit. This has to be approaching some kinda record.......

As you were, I have a cold Foster's waiting for me.:beer:

 

[Silver Wings]

76 pages on this thread...Holy $hit. This has to be approaching some kinda record.......

All this proves is that a whole lotta pilots are full of a whole lotta b.s.

76 pages knocking an aircraft that has proved quite a success in the market with about 75 in service in 4 years and almost no re sales......no incidents.... no acsidents.......

An aircraft with M0.8 and FL410 capability (like a Challenger), a cabin with many of the creature comforts of a G-string....albeit without the headroom, but at a price many, many millions less..... and with range more than a higher priced Falcon 2000. Reasonable, but not award winning short field performance, cleared into LCY and Aspen-Telluride.

All in all a very cost effective aircraft............dare we say it.... an aircraft that performs a great many missions more cost efficiently than most other business jets.......and isnt that what BUSINESS is all about.

Maybe BUSINESS to all the bitchin pilots here is all about wearing shades, eatin bbq and trying hard to hang onto the cool :-(

FLAMES

 

[Chicken Taco]

Maybe BUSINESS to all the bitchin pilots here is all about wearing shades, eatin bbq and trying hard to hang onto the cool :-(

OF COURSE its all about the BBQ!

But seriuosly, good thoughts there silverwings, and I'm not gonna flame. Having spent time in both the airline 145 and the Legacy, it's a verry different bird. The big complaints about the RJ are noise and cramped quarters, right? Since the Legacy isn't built as light as possible to eke out every ounce of FAA-reweighted payload, sound insulation is actually used. It's amazing what a difference a few hundred pounds of noise blankets makes..

On the space issue, all I can say is DUH!! Anybody been on a CRJ lately? I don't see anybody bitching that a Challenger 604 or Global is cramped, but the POS CRJ has to be the least comfortable airline jet in existance, even worst than the ERJ. It's 4-across with only 16 inches more cabin width than the Embraer. My point is, whether it was a corporate plane converted for airline use or an airliner converted to corporate doesn't matter (except for the added benefit of airline-spec durability) Any plane originally designed for 37 people now fitted with a 15 seat interior will be quite roomy, and shouldn't be judged by those that have only seen the airline version.

Now, in my current life as an airline 170 driver, I have to say that I'm ecstatic about the forthcoming Lineage. I'm not going to call it a BBJ killer because it's not. The Legacy was never meant as a G-5 killer, either. What the Lineage will do is provide a giant cabin for 4000 mile missions like US-Europe, US Transcons, Europe-Mideast, etc.

If you're truly going halfway around the world like NYC-Perth all the time this may not be the best ride for you, but if it's a once or twice a year event, you're paying for a lot of unneeded capability the rest of the time. Any plane is going to require a tech stop, and the question just becomes 2 stops vs. 1 in the big G or BBJ. The time difference will be minimal since the 170 is as fast as the BBJ, and may even be able to do it in the same time since it can use HSC with the two stops rather than LRC and one-stop, and still burn less gas than the Boeing.

The Lineage will come from the factory with CAT III capability via HUD and/or Autoland (customer choice, both available and certified), Chart-View available on the Epic map displays, Autothrottles, any comm setup desired, whatever layout you can design, and a truly quiet interior.

The software issues referred to a few posts back are gone now. I can bring a 170 from totally cold to ready to push in 8 minutes, without the help of a mechanic. On the odd occasion that something does go goofy on the startup, a reboot cures it 99% of the time. Since a responsible crew has the plane powered up and ready to go before the boss gets there anyway, it's not an issue.


BTW, the current record longest thread is here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=35874
134 pages and counting.

77 pages, do I hear 77??

..CT

 

[rumrnr78]

Time to resurrect this bad boy!

Cheers- Rum

 

[LegacyDriver]

Time to resurrect this bad boy!

Cheers- Rum

Number One, I'm going to kick you in the nuts as hard as I can. All three of them.

Your stock is sinking Number One.

Oh Sure.

 

[Raskal]

Jeeeeezus! What brought this thread back?