Latest on UAL recalls

[Puppy]

My recall package had a pay chart excerpt from the 05-02 Letter:

Airbus/Guppy:
1yr - 31.19
2yr - 49.63
3 yr - 72.03
4 yr - 76.47

Minimal increase May 07 and May 08. Definitely worthy of Bypass.

 

[Gordo]

A friend of l mine who was hired Jan 1996 called me last night. Word from the union is hire dates from the Jan 2001 class I was in will receive recall letters by this December.

The pay scale above is what he said I should expect, except junior line holders are flying about 90 - 94 hours per month vice the monthly guarantee of 65 hours. That plus the $1.75 / hour perdiem should boost the gross pay up a bit. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ has a nice calculator with which you can see your pay rates.

Though I doubt we'll ever see raises like Mr. Tilton just received.

 

[Booker]

Did you mean www.airlinepilotcentral.com?

 

[bluefin]

What are reserve guys flying? Are they around the 90 - 94 hour range also? It would seem logical that reserves get more time.

 

[flyingmonkey]

What are reserve guys flying? Are they around the 90 - 94 hour range also? It would seem logical that reserves get more time.

Geez, I hope not. That would be quite a ball-buster of a reserve month. Fatigued by the end of the month for sure.

 

[ORDFO]

New junior man info

This was new on Skynet today, junior pilot to recieve recall offer Seniority #: 8287 Hire Date: 09/10/2000
Looks like they went through 85 pilots to get 20 to come back.

 

[Gordo]

More info from the company regarding furlough recalls. This was a recent post on Skynet​

Manpower Planning
Shown below is our training plan through March 2007, which provides some insight into upcoming vacancy bids. Note that “current bid inventory”, representing vacancy bids already awarded, will occupy a portion of the training slots in December through March.​

Sorry the spreadsheet didn't make it. Surmise it to say
October 767 10 FO crews
320 15
300 22
November 76710 FO crews​

320 15
300 22
December 767 15 FO crews
320 15
300 17
January 767 18 FO crews
320 28
300 15
February 767 24
320 28
300 18
March 767 24
320 19
300 18

Additionally, we recently announced that the number of pilots recalled in 2006 will end up around 385, and that we expect to recall over 300 pilots in 2007. We anticipate that by February all furloughed pilots will have been offered return, meaning that only voluntary furloughees will remain, or those pilots on the bypass list. At that point the bypass list will be traversed in reverse seniority order, with the voluntary furloughees deciding to either return or resign.​

Both the training and recall plan support our 2007 manpower plan, which contains increased staffing levels on the domestic fleets compared to 2006. The 767 CAP, 767 F/O, and 300 CAP positions have the largest increase, an action clearly needed as evidenced by our 2006 operating performance.​

 

[hyflyt560]

For those on mil leave and recalled to the Oct 16 class, can we find out what equip/domicile we have?

 

[bluefin]

What are reserve guy's flying? Are they being capped at 70 hrs or are they flying 90 hrs like the line holders?

 

[hyflyt560]

For those on mil leave and recalled to the Oct 16 class, can we find out what equip/domicile we have?

Never mind, Bob Neal called me today.

 

[acroflyr]

Never mind, Bob Neal called me today.

So what did you get? What was available? Thanks!

 

[BigRed1]

From the latest MEC update today. FYI...

"Discussing recalled furloughed pilots, Captain Hamilton said that, including the October 15, November 6 and December 4 recall classes, 1,741 pilots have responded to recall offers, with 584 (33.5 %) accepting recall, 390 (22.4 %) receiving Leaves of Absence, 752 (43.2 %) bypassing and 15 (0.08 %) resigning. The Company extended an additional 53 recall offers, but as of this date, all responses have not yet been received."

My take:

As a line holding 320 First Officer in LAX, I can tell all of you prospective returning furloughees, we need you back. We consistantly SRM/JRM, and the reserves are flying more towards 90 rather than 70. All the bashing you hear about UAL is over blown. If you can stomach flying the lowest paying equipment and the work rules associated with the LCO, then you can stomach anything.

We currently have 4 unfilled LAX 767 bids and we had 2 on the last bid unfilled. My point is, there are other options that will come available to you and if you don't want to fly the narrow gauge equipment, you won't have to for long. But it really is NOT that bad. Now...If you are commuting to reserve to cover several airports, that is not the wisest decision. But on that note, if you are recalled to a domicile other that that in which you were furloughed from, you will receive positive space BP-3 passes for the first 6 months, and fee-waived BP-8 passes for the next 6 months. If you choose to move to your new domicile, it is fully paid for by UAL. By the end of the first year, you should either be off reserve, or taking a bid to another domicile/equipment.

I am an 8 year 320 f/o, and I make roughly $8,000 a month give or take $500, plus per diem of another $700 per month. If you add in the 15 percent B and C fund cash payments to my retirement account, I think a $9,500 per month pay package for a 320 F/O is not too bad, without even including my free medical and dental (that is for HMO/DMO though).

Is it as good as the $12,000 per month I used to make? Nope. Will we get a better contract as our careers progress in a few years? Probably. Are you coming back to a line holding 8th year pay position? No you are not. But you'll be there before you know it and if I am making a comfortable living flying the smallest airplane UAL has, it will only go up from here flying the bigger birds and flying as Captain.

For those of you who had the option to bypass, that was a great thing because it has given you the luxary of time to make a more informed decision. It will also enable you to return to UAL with more seniority. Reading the discussion on the Majors board about whether a pilot should come bask to UAL or go to JetBlue is interesting. My opinion, United all the way. JetBlue has good people. But so do we. We have been through rough times, but there is no where to go but up for us. JetBlue is un proven in the whole scheme of airline survival. A 7 year old airline versus an 80 year old stalworth is a risky scenerio. Is JetBlue gonna be hear in 80 years? Who knows. Is UAL gonna be around for another 80 years? ...If we haven't been shut down with 9/11, SARS, terrorism, 2 wars, Bird Flu, 78 dollar oil, Bankruptcy, recession, and countless other setbacks, I don't think much can take us down next time. The key to a successful career is keeping your company viable and in business. It may take a lot of hits during the bad times, but there will be good times ahead as well. That is just the business of flying these days. It has always been that way. UAL is as lean as we have ever been. The STAR Alliance is a global powerhouse. If we merge with anyone will the junior guy get screwed? No...Because you just assured your longevity position as a pilot with the largest most powerful new airline in existance, junior or not.

In summary, it is not as good as it used to be. You can still make a great living flying even the smallest and most junior equipment. We have been around a long time, and that means something. It got as bad as it is gonna get, and I feel it will only get better. Do not resign...Come back to United. We want and need you back.

Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth. I guess in the end, you still have to love flying airplanes. Because that is the bases for everything that is important. The love of flying airplanes.

Thanks for reading my ramblings. Hope it helps. Any other questions, feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Huggyu2]

BigRed1,
Well said.

 

[Andy]

From the latest MEC update today. FYI...

"Discussing recalled furloughed pilots, Captain Hamilton said that, including the October 15, November 6 and December 4 recall classes, 1,741 pilots have responded to recall offers, with 584 (33.5 %) accepting recall, 390 (22.4 %) receiving Leaves of Absence, 752 (43.2 %) bypassing and 15 (0.08 %) resigning. The Company extended an additional 53 recall offers, but as of this date, all responses have not yet been received."

A lot of those bypassers are starting to come back. I bypassed the Sep class and tried to get in the Dec class (not likely); would've been #5. I could go in the Jan class as #7 (as of now), but told the Bob Neil that I'd take Dec or Feb. I'm just trying to get a better choice since I'll be on mil leave for a long time.

 

[hyflyt560]

So what did you get? What was available? Thanks!

I was/am #9 in the October class and received 320/DCA. I'll be on mil. leave (Bogata vacation) until April. Not sure how many in the Oct recall class got 757, but there were 10 vacancies, so I assume those already on the line snagged those, or most of them.

 

[G3G4G5]

JS & Medical

A little thread drift, but I think I found my audience. Do I need a current medical to JS while on mil leave (recalled)?

Thanks,
G3G4G5

 

[Huggyu2]

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I'd say that you must have the medical.

 

[Powda5]

But on that note, if you are recalled to a domicile other that that in which you were furloughed from, you will receive positive space BP-3 passes for the first 6 months, and fee-waived BP-8 passes for the next 6 months. If you choose to move to your new domicile, it is fully paid for by UAL. By the end of the first year, you should either be off reserve, or taking a bid to another domicile/equipment.

Would you get positive space back to the old Domicile (SFO)? Or would they do it from the place you currently live or your choice? I was based SFO and live in DEN now...

 

[BigRed1]

But on that note, if you are recalled to a domicile other that that in which you were furloughed from, you will receive positive space BP-3 passes for the first 6 months, and fee-waived BP-8 passes for the next 6 months. If you choose to move to your new domicile, it is fully paid for by UAL. By the end of the first year, you should either be off reserve, or taking a bid to another domicile/equipment.

Would you get positive space back to the old Domicile (SFO)? Or would they do it from the place you currently live or your choice? I was based SFO and live in DEN now...

Powda5:

You will receive positive space tickets from your current residence on file with UAL on the UG-100. You just go onto Skynet, Weblist, click on positive space booking and book your desired flight. Then you call your current domicile flight office and have them confirm it. If you live in Denver, it will be an easier commute because of the frequency of flights on UAL. A likely scenerio is a recall to LAX, SFO, ORD, or IAD on the A320 or 300. You will have BP-3 passes for 6 months, and then fee waived BP-7 passes for the next 6 months. I actually mis spoke on the above quote about the BP-8s. They are actually BP-7s which get you on ahead of other Non-Revs. Hopefully by the end of the first year, you will have a bid back to Denver and live happily ever after. Albiet on reserve for a long time because Denver is senior. One gotcha though on these BP-3s. If the plane is completely sold out, ie. the day before Thanksgiving, they will not bump a revenue passenger to get you on. Therefore, these "positive space" passes are only good if there is actually a seat available at the time. Now, once you lock in your seat, they cannot sell the seat you have reserved, so the key is to book as quickly as possible when you think you will need a seat. A short call reserve assignment the night before Thanksgiving might be a tough situation. I know this because I found out the hard way during my 7 month commute from ORD to LAX. Of course, if they need you bad enough, they will find you a seat. The flight office actually called the dierctor of inventory management and unlocked a seat just for lil' ol' me.

I hope I am understanding your question correctly. Now, if you are recalled to the same domicile in which you were furloughed from, I do not think you are eligable for the paid move or passes because in theory, nothing changed. So, if you want the passes, do not bid back to your old domicile, bid ORD, IAD, or LAX instead. If you come back to a new airplane, you will incure a new freeze of 36 months. If you come back to the same equipment, you will not. That is important to know if you plan to bidding the B767 somewhere, which is easily doable in the first year back if you can stomach being on reserve longer.

Regardless of whether or not you are moving, you all will be entitled to 3 transfer days which will need to be used within the first 90 days following your IOE and release to the line at your new domocile. It is a nice way to get out of some reserve days in a pinch. You will coordinate your transfer days through your new flight office.

Hope this helps. I speak from personal experience as I was furloughed, recalled to a new domicile, commuted for a while, then took a paid move. PM me if you have any other questions and I would be happy to answer them if I can.

 

[Andy]

IIf you come back to a new airplane, you will incure a new freeze of 36 months. If you come back to the same equipment, you will not.

Not necessarily true. If you require the full training course, you will incur the 36 month seat lock.
I was furloughed Mar 02. I've been out of the airbus long enough to require the full course. If I bid airbus, I'll still incur the 36 month seat lock because I've been out of the equipment for almost 5 yrs. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. I currently plan on bidding 737 and hope for the bump off of it.

 

[Huggyu2]

At this point, I think every furloughee has been out long enough to incur the 36 month freeze no matter what equipment they are given.

 

[BigRed1]

Not necessarily true. If you require the full training course, you will incur the 36 month seat lock.
I was furloughed Mar 02. I've been out of the airbus long enough to require the full course. If I bid airbus, I'll still incur the 36 month seat lock because I've been out of the equipment for almost 5 yrs. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. I currently plan on bidding 737 and hope for the bump off of it.

I checked the contract Andy. You are right. If you have been out for more than 2 years, which I guess applies to most of you now, you will have to go through the entire aircraft specific program. Any program lasting more than 12 days of training results in a 36 month freeze. It was a bigger deal for the first group of guys back because most went through a Requal program that lasted just over a week. If they came back to the same plane, no freeze. Come back to a new plane, stuck for three years.

Hard to believe it has been so long for a lot of you. 2001 and 2002 seems like a lifetime ago...Which...I suppose is why so many bybassers have probably moved on and won't return. Just my guess though. Good if you are junior, because so many of those senior to you will not be around anymore and will result in some new hires coming along shortly to fill in behind you.

Just as an opinion, I think one of the best future domiciles will be in IAD. That is where all the expansion is going, and with all the international growth to places like Rome, Kuwait, and hopefully China with the Beijing route authority victory along with the recently moved Narita service from JFK, there will be a lot more upgrade avialability to the bigger jets. Just use caution as a commuter on reserve or as a line holder as well when you first get back because you will have to cover BWI, IAD, and DCA on the 300 or the 320. It is also like that in SFO with SJC and OAK, and in LAX with BUR, ONT, and SNA. FYI, there is no more 300 in LAX or SFO.

 

[acroflyr]

Not necessarily true. If you require the full training course, you will incur the 36 month seat lock.
I was furloughed Mar 02. I've been out of the airbus long enough to require the full course. If I bid airbus, I'll still incur the 36 month seat lock because I've been out of the equipment for almost 5 yrs. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. I currently plan on bidding 737 and hope for the bump off of it.

FYI concerning training freezes. I was told by Bob Neil that if you are accepting recall and immediately going on MIL LOA or a personal LOA due to a training contract, your training freeze will start from the date of your recall class as if you went to school. It does not start when you eventually go to school following your return from LOA. So, you will actually be working off part of your freeze while your completeing your LOA. Also, once assigned, you can not bid to a different jet until your freeze is over.

I do have a question about positive space travel when recalled to a different domicile. If a pilot accepts recall and goes on MIL LOA or a personal LOA due to a training contract, do the positive space passes start when your recall class starts, or when you actually go back to work for UAL? I obviously would not need them until I go back to fly for UAL, so I hope they would start then. Also, when would you be paid for a paid move? When you accept recall, or go back to work? Thanks!

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I wonder how many will resign once United hits the bottom of the seniority list. Good luck to all with your upcoming decision.

E-mail dated 10/25/06:
______________________________________________________________
United has announced the first recall class of 2007. Offers or recall have been made for an 8 January 2007 recall class. There were 84 initial recall offerings made for this recall class plus an additional 15 pilots coming off of recall bypass. Recall has been offered down to seniority number 8371 (DOH 29 October 2000).

The following are the recall statistics as of 20 October 2006:
As of the 16 October 2006 recall class:
Recalled - Active Status 554
Recalled – LOA 328
Bypassed 767
Resigned 22

Including the 6 November, 4 December 2006 and 8 January 2007 recall classes:
Total Offered Recall 1884
Total Furlough Status 288 (have not been offered recall)
Total Responses to date 1824
Recalled - Active or Accepted 623 34.2%
Recalled - LOA or LOA upon return 419 23.0%
Bypassed or Verbal Bypass 782 42.9%
Resigned 22 1.2%

Total Pilots remaining on Furlough/Furlough Bypass 1055

We still have not been informed of any future recall class dates for 2007, but we are anticipating that classes will run similarly to those held in the beginning of 2006. Based on the current statistics, we believe that initial recall offers will be made to all United furloughees by a February or March 2007 recall class offering. As we near this milestone more information will be made available concerning the recall process once recall bypass is no longer an option

 

[pb4ufly]

LOAs?

Gents

I'm looking for some help here...

What's the latest on LOAs? Does an AFRC/ANG Technition job (technically a civillian GS-13) qualify for military LOA? Has anyone had any luck with this one?

If not, what type of justification is required for personal LOA? What contstitutes a contract?

Thank you in advance,

P

 

[CTflyer]

Powda5:


If you come back to a new airplane, you will incure a new freeze of 36 months. If you come back to the same equipment, you will not. That is important to know if you plan to bidding the B767 somewhere, which is easily doable in the first year back if you can stomach being on reserve longer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Actually no matter what plane you come back to, if you were furloughed more than 3 years, you get a seat lock........I will double check that info though....

 

[BigRed1]

The following is from the latest SSC (system schedule committee) minutes just posted on the ALPA sight for UAL from September. I especially like the last line.

"Recall Update.......The september 25th class consisted of 37 active pilots (2 coming off leaves); there were 59 pilots that elected to take leaves (mostly Military Leave) for a total of 94 pilots recalled. There will be 30 pilots in the October 16th class, 20 pilots in the November 6th class, and a recently announced class of 20 pilots on December 4th. this will bring the yearly total to 395. The company also recently announced plans for a need of at least 300 additional pilots in 2007. The SSC feels that with 250 retirements planned for 2007, many more than 300 pilots will be needed to solve the myriad of manpower issues. The company also mentioned that with only 368 pilots on furlough who have not been offered recall and the probability that a low number of pilots will accept recall when the company goes back up the list, they are considering the possibility of new hires as early as next fall."

Good news for us all.

Fly safe.

BigRed1

 

[ualgrizz]

Jumped Ship

UAL-GSO:

Looks like you bailed from the Tran. Im still on the fence. The commute is killing me. Give me the low-down. PM'd you. Grizz

 

[UAL-GSO]

Hey Grizz,
I went back to UAL last month after 1 1/2 years at Airtran. Tranny has nice airplanes and a good pilot group overall, but they definitely have a few Captains with serious chips on their shoulders. Everyone has their own reasons to stay or leave. I made my decision and I am moving forward - not looking back. Best of luck - I sent you a p.m. also.
UAL-GSO

 

[Gordo]

A friend of mine was called this past Friday for a recall. He was a late November 2000 hire. He was told they were calling the Dec 2000 class already.