Latest on UAL recalls

[Yuppyguppy]

I think new hires will be on the way sooner than later. By the way we must stand up to these idiot pilots doing SR/JR manning. They are the modern day scab. Their names should be posted all over the crew rooms

 

[Andy]

By the way we must stand up to these idiot pilots doing SR/JR manning. They are the modern day scab. Their names should be posted all over the crew rooms

I'm in agreement, but you've got to get JR/SRM removed from the contract before you can crucify someone for it.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Whoa...

I think new hires will be on the way sooner than later. By the way we must stand up to these idiot pilots doing SR/JR manning. They are the modern day scab. Their names should be posted all over the crew rooms

Slow down there, some folks are having a hard time paying their bills and because of the big give back they are fighting anyway they can to keep the bank from taking the homestead. You do not know every persons situation, I personally know 4 folks that have lost houses due to not being able to keep with obligations they got into before the the 40 percent and equipment downgrade. Plus the end of an incredible run in real estate run up. These folks are not in any way scabs.

In addition the amount of divorces among UA pilots since 9/11 has been stagering.

So in conclusion keep your scab mentality on the back burner untill you know somebody's situation.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

So much for the "unity".

It's like the game 'musical chairs'. When the music stops people race to get a seat and someone is left with nothing. Far be it for the entire crowd to decide as a whole not to play the game or demand that there be one more chair so EVERYONE can have a seat.

I was one of the 2172 left with nothing. Hope the others who've been whoring themselves out to pay for their toys know what they've done.

GP

PS: Back on the thread...what other classes have been announced for this year?

 

[G100driver]

Not my fight GP, but excellent post.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Slow down there, some folks are having a hard time paying their bills and because of the big give back they are fighting anyway they can to keep the bank from taking the homestead. You do not know every persons situation, I personally know 4 folks that have lost houses due to not being able to keep with obligations they got into before the the 40 percent and equipment downgrade. Plus the end of an incredible run in real estate run up. These folks are not in any way scabs.

In addition the amount of divorces among UA pilots since 9/11 has been stagering.

So in conclusion keep your scab mentality on the back burner untill you know somebody's situation.

No, they are not scabs and should not be referred to as scabs. That being said - IMHO what they have done/are doing is inexcusable. I too personally know several folks that have lost houses, etc. due to the 100% paycut which I also had the joy of experiencing. You think 40% is tough? Try keeping up with those obligations when the paychecks stop.

Every scab out there can give you a laundry list of reasons why they "had to" do what they did. I am sure that our "brothers" who have chosen to JRM/SRM can give you there own list of excuses as well. The fact of the matter remains that these folks have helped the company keep furloughees off the property even longer by doing something that we as a pilot group have overwhelmingly decided is wrong. I try to thank each one of them personally whenever I can. Scabs? No. Low class? Hell yes.

 

[Huggyu2]

You won't see me doing JM/SM, but seeing as ALPA has sanctioned it as a valid practice, I won't hold it against someone who does it. I might try to dissuade them via a discussion. And maybe they'll convince me they have a good reason for that particular time/week.
But I'd sure prefer it if everyone wasn't just so ready to yell "Scab!" and "I hate you!" so quick. It doesn't help the situation; it makes it worse.
Let's simply listen to each person. If you still disagree, fine. And tell your LEC reps you'd like to see them do something about it.

 

[Andy]

Slow down there, some folks are having a hard time paying their bills and because of the big give back they are fighting anyway they can to keep the bank from taking the homestead. You do not know every persons situation, I personally know 4 folks that have lost houses due to not being able to keep with obligations they got into before the the 40 percent and equipment downgrade. Plus the end of an incredible run in real estate run up. These folks are not in any way scabs.

In addition the amount of divorces among UA pilots since 9/11 has been stagering.

So in conclusion keep your scab mentality on the back burner untill you know somebody's situation.

We've ALL got our hard luck stories. Save that junk for someone who's lived a golden life. Most of us posting here are furloughees/ex-furloughees who have ZERO sympathy for those that whore themselves out while their brothers have been and are out on the street.

This is almost as stupid as your 104 rule posts. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=92256
More flamebait?

 

[Peanut gallery]

I see a trend here

We've ALL got our hard luck stories. Save that junk for someone who's lived a golden life. Most of us posting here are furloughees/ex-furloughees who have ZERO sympathy for those that whore themselves out while their brothers have been and are out on the street.

Every time some one has even a slightly diferent opinion than you it has to be flamebait, so much so it has put you on the sideline a time or two.
If I remember your diatribe here, you originally rubbed it in your fellow furloughees face that you could imediately go back to some desk job in the military, while your fellow furloughees were wondering how they were going to eat.
Then when anybody even so much as mentioned the age 60 thing which we all know will happen soon ( but you want it when you are 59 and 11 months ) you go off on them. The legislation you call flaimbait was within hours of moving forward when folks put some light on it ( maybe even because it was posted in a bunch of places that day ) and slowed down the whole thing and managed to get it back into the NRPM process.
Then the last insult to your fellow furloughees is when you use the mil leave process to avoid doing the time in a job that simply does not pay enough anymore, hoping to go back when it finally gets fixed and from your perspective some more people retire, but you really did not need that in the short term bacause you used your status on mil leave to sharpshoot the system and grab a 767 seat while folks senior to you will maybe have to come back on narrow body pay because of training center problems. But that is ok because you got yours and now you have the unmitigated gall to call someone trapped in a pay hell that you have very selfishly avoided names and call for derision on there lives. How do you look in the mirror......

 

[spinup]

While I understand that JRM/SRM is contractually legal, you have got to realize that it is completely undercutting our leverage. This was the original reason for my yes vote on the TA, my lack of trust in these individuals to do the right thing. Their inability to cease self-serving interests horribly minimizes our leverage. It’s frustrating to see many do the right thing in declining big money and schedule improvements via JRM/SRM only to have HERO’S save the day. Simply stated, scheduling is using this as a manpower tool. Make no mistake; they NEED this tool for the summer flying. 300+ JRM/SRM events a month… ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?

Sure, it’s contractually legal. However, it would require big $$$ for ALPA to negotiate JRM/SRM out of the contract. Why waste resources on this when it is VOLUNTARY??? We can individually negotiate it out for FREE.

I really don’t care the excuse, and there is always one, STOP JRM/SRM NOW!!! Its disgusting, especially so given the statement we just made with the TA.

Rant over, not aimed at you.

 

[Andy]

If I remember your diatribe here, you originally rubbed it in your fellow furloughees face that you could imediately go back to some desk job in the military, while your fellow furloughees were wondering how they were going to eat.

Really? Then I must've been pretty stupid to be drawing unemployment for 9 mos of the 5 yrs that I spent on furlough. Especially since I could get a 'coveted' desk job in the military. Yep, it was great being unemployed; I highly recommend it. :angryfire

The legislation you call flaimbait was within hours of moving forward when folks put some light on it ( maybe even because it was posted in a bunch of places that day ) and slowed down the whole thing and managed to get it back into the NRPM process.

The ONLY time that I've seen any writing on that outlandish proposal is from you. Did you get your information while out having beers with a couple of congressional aides? I checked with the ALPA leg affairs rep and he had NO idea what I was asking about. And you have certainly provided no proof of the existance of such a proposal.

Then the last insult to your fellow furloughees is when you use the mil leave process to avoid doing the time in a job that simply does not pay enough anymore, hoping to go back when it finally gets fixed and from your perspective some more people retire, but you really did not need that in the short term bacause you used your status on mil leave to sharpshoot the system and grab a 767 seat while folks senior to you will maybe have to come back on narrow body pay because of training center problems. But that is ok because you got yours and now you have the unmitigated gall to call someone trapped in a pay hell that you have very selfishly avoided names and call for derision on there lives. How do you look in the mirror......

You don't like the mil leave process? Then get the contract changed.
You don't like the recall process? Then get the contract changed.
All pilots at United have the opportunity to serve their country in the military. For that, United does not penalize them. How much time have you spent in the military?
All pilots on furlough have had the opportunity to learn how the recall process works. Each makes a decision on when to be recalled based on their personal wants and needs. I don't fault my friend who's 1000 numbers senior to me and still on bypass; he's waiting for the right time for him to return. Perhaps you'd prefer a rigidly inflexible system for recalling pilots. That begs the question .... what's the likelihood of you being furloughed in the future?


So, let me see if I understand you. Mil leave bad. Furlough recall procedures bad. JR/SRM good. Is that an accurate summary of your point of view?

 

[GuppyPuppy]

You don't like the mil leave process? Then get the contract changed.
You don't like the recall process? Then get the contract changed.
All pilots at United have the opportunity to serve their country in the military. For that, United does not penalize them. How much time have you spent in the military?
?

Better check that one, Andy.

Some have a medical condition that, while still allowing them to get a 1st class medical, kept them out of the military.

NOW....BACK ON SUBJECT....

Are there any classes scheduled past the June 4th class? And...what is the hire date of the junior pilot given the last chance recall.

GP

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Don't JR/SR man....why help out a company that is counting on you to fix their manning problem over the summer. 100's of flights will be cancelled if we say no! I know it sounds mean and yeah were here to make the ship run straight but it's hard to help someone out who keeps spitting in your face, stealing your money and gives you absolutely no respect. SCREW EM...no increase in pay...no way! The concession stand is closed! The only thing GT and his cronies understand is money.

 

[Huggyu2]

...and I was hoping we could get all 8000+ pilots to get along, nevermind a few of us on FI. At some point, we'll all need to focus our efforts on working to get a better contract for all of us.

 

[Andy]

Better check that one, Andy.

Some have a medical condition that, while still allowing them to get a 1st class medical, kept them out of the military.

NOW....BACK ON SUBJECT....

Guppy, I'm not referring to strictly pilot positions. There are more than a few airline pilots who have non-pilot jobs in the Reserves.
And with the current need for personnel, one of my former coworkers with a degenerative vision problem (legally blind, unable to drive a car) passed his physical. He had expected to be medically discharged, but is happily continuing to serve in the Corps at Cherry Point. The standards are quite variable depending on the job and branch of service.

 

[BigRed1]

MEC Notes

Hello fellow UAL pilots, UAL furloughees, and future prospective pilots...Here is the latest from the UAL MEC meeting. Some interesting and relevant topics for all.

Regards,

BigRed1
----------------------------------

1. Today's MEC Meeting was filled with updates from various committee chairmen. This morning, Legislative Committee Chairman Captain Jeff Greco told the MEC that his committee met with Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) and was told he would introduce legislation that would change the PBGC rules so that pilots, who must stop flying at age 60, would not have their benefits actuarially reduced by the PBGC in a terminated plan. Instead, the bill would have allowed pilots – at age 60 – to receive the benefit guarantees calculated as though they had reached the maximum age 65. Captain Greco said Sen. Akaka and his staff are committed to making this legislation a reality in the current Congress. He said Sen. Akaka says, "It just isn't fair for pilots not to get full benefits from the PBGC." There is a similar commitment on the House side from Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.).

Captain Greco reminded the MEC about the "devastating effects" the EU-US Open Skies Agreement would have on the domestic airline industry and the pilot profession. The agreement seeks to continue negotiations to allow cabotage in the United States, eliminate restrictions on foreign ownership and would allow wet-leasing of aircraft (with crews) on U.S. domestic routes. Captain Greco said ALPA continues working hard on this issue. He said ALPA was able to have language included in the agreement that "in principle" provides a legal hook in which to enter further negotiations on protective provisions for pilots. "It is of interest that the majority of wins on our (ALPA’s) side are 'what doesn’t happen' to our profession,'" said Captain Greco. "Much work gets done behind closed doors, out of the spotlight, and away from the cameras. The nature of the process is such that inserting a phrase or adding a protective clause may not be a headline grabber but could have a huge positive effect later. This is at the core of what the ALPA Governmental affairs department does for us day in and day out."

Captain Greco also stressed the importance of pilots contributing to the ALPA-PAC and UP-PAC. United pilots last year, along with Delta pilots, led all ALPA pilot groups with 26 percent participation. "If there was ever a need for robust participation in our legislative effort, it is now," said Captain Greco. "Possibly the greatest threat to our careers is the EU-US Open Skies Agreement. Plainly stated, it threatens the elimination of our jobs. The question we need to ask every ALPA pilot is: What are you willing to do to secure your means to make a living? One way is participating in the political process through support of ALPA-PAC and UP-PAC. "Staying informed concerning our issues and participating in the democratic process of our union form the foundation of our collective success."

2. The following pilots were elected to MEC Committee positions this afternoon:​

• ORD Captain Bob Spadea, Chairman, Jumpseat Committee
• ORD First Officer Mark Wurtz, Member, System Board Member
• IAD First Officer Phil Otis, Member, System Board Member
• Election for Negotiating Committee Member has been deferred until Wednesday.

3. On Monday, MEC Vice Chairman Captain Wendy Morse updated the MEC on agenda items the MEC adopted and gave direction on. One of the agenda items seeks an agreement with the Company allowing the United Chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association to be directly involved in developing, implementing and conducting the New Hire interviews and the hiring process, and the creation of an ad-hoc committee to oversee the Company's hiring process for flight officers. The MEC has made this a high emphasis item, and has communicated its demand to Senior Vice President Jane Allen that line pilots will be involved in pilot hiring.
On another agenda item, Captain Morse reported that the Company has agreed that should a crew member be away from the aircraft and unable to enter a refusal, Line Maintenance has been directed to enter Captain's comments regarding refusal of an aircraft to be made a part of the MRD for the benefit of follow-on crews.

4. MEC Membership Committee Chairman Captain Jeff Cramer told the MEC that with the returning pilot classes in February, March and April 2007 (as well as the projection for the scheduled May recall class), the total number of recalled UAL pilots to active status this year will total 188 pilots.

"Unfortunately, based on normal age 60 retirements (not including early retirements and/or medical retirements) UAL will lose 266 pilots in 2007 – another year where fewer pilots will perform the same, or slightly more flying, than the previous year," Captain Cramer told the MEC.

He reminded the MEC that this is a situation that continues to merit their close attention.

 

[RTB]

Guppypuppy, last chance recall for the 6/4 class includes some 7/16/2000 hires.

 

[Andy]

Latest UAL recall information from Skynet (as of 4/13/07)

Junior pilot remaining on bypass: #8097 Hire date 7/16/2000

Pilots remaining on bypass: 577

 

[hyeflyin]

Whats the seniority number of the most senior guy on furlough? Do you guys expect more guys to come back as they get closer to the top? Thanks.

 

[Puppy]

Latest from Bob Neil (1 May):
Jun 4 class (20 pilots) not yet filled. 6 came off bypass to attend this class. 75 letters sent out to fill the remaining 14 slots, only 5 have accepted. Next batch of letters to go out within a few days to get the additional 9 slots filled (starting around #8050 up to ___?) This class will have no DEN assignments.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Latest from Bob Neil (1 May):
Jun 4 class (20 pilots) not yet filled. 6 came off bypass to attend this class. 75 letters sent out to fill the remaining 14 slots, only 5 have accepted. Next batch of letters to go out within a few days to get the additional 9 slots filled (starting around #8050 up to ___?) This class will have no DEN assignments.

Any idea on equipment/domiciles for Jun 4? I pretty much assume it's IAD/ORD on the 320/300. Maybe a 76 out of SFO or LAX. Any info appreciated.

SCR

 

[Andy]

Latest from Bob Neil (1 May):
Jun 4 class (20 pilots) not yet filled. 6 came off bypass to attend this class. 75 letters sent out to fill the remaining 14 slots, only 5 have accepted. Next batch of letters to go out within a few days to get the additional 9 slots filled (starting around #8050 up to ___?) This class will have no DEN assignments.

WOWSERS! That's lower than I was expecting - a 6.7% last pass acceptance rate.
I just took a look at the 4/5/07 pilot roster; it looks like ~22 pilots were on bypass between 8050 and 8097 (last number in skynet from 13 April). What do you want to bet that they only get about 3 of the 9 needed? I bet that they get close to 7900 in order to fill the June class.
I wonder if they'll have a July class; they haven't had a July class since recalls began.


Slightly different subject - There was a post on the UAL MEC forum today that stated that newhire applications for United would be available in May or June with a 1 Oct target date for newhire process.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I'm right at about #7700 and was hoping I could wait until August or September.

Come on guys...start accepting the recalls!!!

GP

 

[Andy]

I'm right at about #7700 and was hoping I could wait until August or September.

Come on guys...start accepting the recalls!!!

GP

If you're 7699 (on bypass), you've got about 147 on bypass between you and 8097 (junior man as of 13 Apr). If the same percentages hold, that would get you recalled for the next class after June. Since we haven't had a July class since recalls started, you should be able to make it to August. It'll be close. Good luck to ya.

 

[HERCDRVR]

Just finished OE and got the call...Mil Leave or Bust! One more slot opens up...

 

[GuppyPuppy]

If you're 7699 (on bypass), you've got about 147 on bypass between you and 8097 (junior man as of 13 Apr). If the same percentages hold, that would get you recalled for the next class after June. Since we haven't had a July class since recalls started, you should be able to make it to August. It'll be close. Good luck to ya.

Andy...you're very close, but that's not me.

Gotta get my 1k PIC turbine before I go back!

GP

 

[Andy]

Andy...you're very close, but that's not me.

Gotta get my 1k PIC turbine before I go back!

GP

I only chose that number because it was closest to 7700 and on bypass. I manually counted those on bypass down to 7699 for your reference. It looks like you'll just barely escape the June class. Good luck.

 

[terryhfly]

Does anyone on here work in the new hire or training dept.? If so could you PM me. I have an (different) type of question that I can't seem to get answered. Thanks

 

[ampropilot2b]

Any latest numbers for the June class? Any word on a July class? Anyone have additional details about the newhire process? Things are starting to happen pretty fast it seems.

 

[MXAV8R]

Hello,
Just curious if United will still be offering any "benefits" in the hiring process to former FLT OPS interns?
Myself: FLT OPS Intern WHQFS Fall 1998. TT 5600,PIC 4000(Jet 121), Line Check Airman.
Also, will the application be online or the old scantron (still have the one given to us interns with "INTERN" stamped on it, LOL)
Thank You