Latest on JBPA and bandofblue

[Hair-on-Fire]

I was furloughed from UAL and there was no one more criticized for their interviewing process than UAL. But the job was good, so we all put up with it.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Yeah let's keep status quo and count on management goodwill to fix things. They have had their chance, it's time to take matters into our own hands.

You're angry and are going to make an emotional decision. Good plan.

 

[Blue Dude]

You're right that the devil is in the details. My point was to counter the assertion that we're behind everyone in every area. Simply not true.

OK, then. Please provide details on areas that we're not lagging industry average.

 

[Blue Dude]

You're angry and are going to make an emotional decision. Good plan.

I don't see the emotion in his post, other than sarcasm. This is a business decision.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

OK, then. Please provide details on areas that we're not lagging industry average.

I gave a few examples. Also, I contend our trip modification/cancellation protection is the best out there. Our flexibility in trading/swapping/dropping trips is excellent.

Lots of areas for improvement, I agree. In some areas we suck. However this idea that voting for JBPA = improvements in all areas is a load of bull.

 

[Blue Dude]

I gave a few examples. Also, I contend our trip modification/cancellation protection is the best out there. Our flexibility in trading/swapping/dropping trips is excellent.

Lots of areas for improvement, I agree. In some areas we suck. However this idea that voting for JBPA = improvements in all areas is a load of bull.

Noone is saying that JBPA is the promised land. But it is the only legal mechanism for improvements in some important areas: retirement, disability medical, survivor benefits, a few others. Most of the rest of the desired improvements wouldn't cost much of anything, but there's no willingness to make changes on the part of the company, mostly because we're not experiencing high turnover at the moment. Us: we'd like to make some changes here. They mostly won't cost you a dime. Them: no, we're busy, maybe next time, if there is a next time. What to do then? Quit? Oh, I know, I signed a contract. What I didn't know was that the conatract I signed was going to be practically the same with 150 airplanes/2000 pilots as with 15 airplanes/200 pilots. We still are working under "startup" rules. News flash: we're no longer a startup. This place was sold to new pilots as a career airline, but we're not working under career airline conditions. At what point will that occur? They won't say.

I agree that Flica is a great tool. But it's one that saves the company a great deal of money as well. Look at how lean they can staff scheduling (and how perfunctorily they can train them) because for most routine requests we can perform our own scheduling. This is a case of working smarter, not harder (see reservations for another example). But it's not a union/no-union factor because it's a benefit for both parties that would be foolish to be "put on the table" by either party. If they did that, there are all kinds of things we can ask for in return for running so leanly and productively. So I don't see Flica going away as any sort of risk.

BTW, our trip mod/cancellation process and Flica are not in our contracts. The next Bluebooks update can alter or do away with them. I don't think that's at all likely in this case, but they are not in any way protected from unilateral removal as has happened often in the past. I don't view this as an argument in your favor.

 

[ualdriver]

I was never asked that question at my JetBlue interview. Likewise, I never subjected myself to your super anal scantron form either. I heard too many horror stories about the latter. Evidently you like United and I'll tell you right up front I like JetBlue. Additionally, I voted for union representation because ultimately I believe it will help our overall compensation package to improve. Will United be giving furloughed pilots perferential interviews for their new Aer lingus codeshare.

You have a beef with the SCANTRON? What was the big deal with that? If you're going to make fun of the UAL interview/selection process, you're going to have to do better than that. Didn't you know we've only hired females and minorities over the past decade or so? You should have gone more in that direction. It's more inflammatory and you'd find more support for your observations on this forum.

If you'd like to debate the impications of the Aer lingus codeshare and the provisions of my contract that cover such a proposition, I'd be happy to do so. However, I assume you have NO IDEA about the our contractual provisions concerning that arrangement, the only "facts" you have concerning the codeshare is what you've read on flightinfo, and we'd both be wasting our time. Especially since the company hasn't even released the real details of what they intend to do.

It's not that I "like" United. In fact, if this industry had free movement of labor, I don't think a marketable pilot would stay here.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Noone is saying that JBPA is the promised land. But it is the only legal mechanism for improvements in some important areas: retirement, disability medical, survivor benefits, a few others. Most of the rest of the desired improvements wouldn't cost much of anything, but there's no willingness to make changes on the part of the company, mostly because we're not experiencing high turnover at the moment. Us: we'd like to make some changes here. They mostly won't cost you a dime. Them: no, we're busy, maybe next time, if there is a next time. What to do then? Quit? Oh, I know, I signed a contract. What I didn't know was that the conatract I signed was going to be practically the same with 150 airplanes/2000 pilots as with 15 airplanes/200 pilots. We still are working under "startup" rules. News flash: we're no longer a startup. This place was sold to new pilots as a career airline, but we're not working under career airline conditions. At what point will that occur? They won't say.

I agree that Flica is a great tool. But it's one that saves the company a great deal of money as well. Look at how lean they can staff scheduling (and how perfunctorily they can train them) because for most routine requests we can perform our own scheduling. This is a case of working smarter, not harder (see reservations for another example). But it's not a union/no-union factor because it's a benefit for both parties that would be foolish to be "put on the table" by either party. If they did that, there are all kinds of things we can ask for in return for running so leanly and productively. So I don't see Flica going away as any sort of risk.

BTW, our trip mod/cancellation process and Flica are not in our contracts. The next Bluebooks update can alter or do away with them. I don't think that's at all likely in this case, but they are not in any way protected from unilateral removal as has happened often in the past. I don't view this as an argument in your favor.

I think you're totally right that Flica and our trip protections need to be in writing. JBPA doesn't = that though. We are just as likely to get them in our PEAs as we are in a CBA. The only true advantage I think JBPA offers is the legal advantages of ERISA testing. You do have to weigh those against the likelyhood of JBPA actually achieving any of those benefits and the cost of dues. Otherwise, I don't think JBPA offers us much at all. Those that think they're going to quickly secure significant improvements are going to be sorely disapointed.

I'm not an ALPA supporter, but at least with ALPA you could point to their aeromedical and legal department to show me something important I'd be getting for my money. I can undertand that. However, JPBA is just a couple guys in their garage. Not much motivation to vote yes.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

OK, then. Please provide details on areas that we're not lagging industry average.

That's pretty easy: FURLOUGHS...

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Listen Colonel Beard,

1. If they outsource 500 jobs , then the "culture" they are so proud of is a sham, and we DEFINITELY needed a union.

2. What's up with the 1% deal? You're so well paid at jb, right? Compared to all the legacies, I mean. What's the big deal anyway? Besides, your starting to whine.

3. Closed shop.

Um, before you come to premature ejaculatory conjecture-- COL Beard flew B-52s; the planes I flew had half the number of engines of his bomber.... So I'm so sorry, I'm not the famous COL...