Latest on JBPA and bandofblue

[B6Busdriver]

1. I'd rather have the PVC and JetBlue's legal department backing me than a couple guys operating out of their garage in FL. JetBlue is required (per our contract) to represent you or pay for an attorney of your choosing. Who do you think has deeper pockets?

2. I agree with your assessment that benefits and salary need to improve. However, you're selling a load of bull crap in saying that JBPA=those improvements. It doesn't. We are just as likely, in my opinion, to accomplish those things using our current structure than we are turning things over a couple guys in their garage. Plus, I save the dues money.

Good luck.

Yeah let's keep status quo and count on management goodwill to fix things. They have had their chance, it's time to take matters into our own hands.

 

[ualdriver]

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

 

[FADEC]

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

I agree with much of what you say however I just want to get something straight. As a B6 pilot I am not required to clean cabins and I don't. You are more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

 

[ualdriver]

I agree with much of what you say however I just want to get something straight. As a B6 pilot I am not required to clean cabins and I don't.

I believe you if that's the way it is now. Obviously you work there and I don't!
However, I would suspect that if one said that they weren't going to clean the cabin during a JB interview, said interview would not have gone very well as that person would not have been construed as a "team player." Further, I would guess that back in the early 00's when JB was booming and everyone was happy to work for low wages and a quick upgrade, if a pilot chose not to clean the cabin that would be viewed very negatively by most of your co-workers. Am I wrong?

 

[banger]

Fadec is correct. Nobody is required to clean. I personally never clean. And you might be correct that if a candidate did come out and volunteer that he would never clean it might be an interview ender. However I also told Fedex I would love to be a cargo guy and SWA that pay was not the most important thing to me and DAL that ATL is where I would like to be based and I got a class date at those airlines.

 

[B6Busdriver]

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

Don't confuse these juicers with facts. They know in their hearts management will take care of them!

 

[AKAAB]

Me thinking it's going to fail big time.

They've run a poll on bluepilots.com and gotten about 200 pro votes each time. Not promising.

Tell the rest of the story. The yes votes on BP.com have consistently been over 70%. I don't think the actual vote will be that high, but the unscientific polls on the board have been pretty telling.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Without a CBA we are in for 5-8 years of the company giving us just enough to not vote again. What do you think just enough will be? Certainly not average pay, benefits, workrules, or retirement. Wake up Blue Bayou! There's a lot to be said for negotiating what you get verses hoping you get something at all.

And at every major airline flying is outsourced-- don't believe for a moment that management won't consider giving our 190s to another carrier to fly after dissolving 500 pilot jobs due to this economic mess. It's been done before, and it could happen again. You'd be giving them carte blanche to do what it would take to keep this company viable-- including a concessionary contract on our first CBA... Yeah we don't have to vote yes for it, but how long are we going to be willing to wait for one? Meanwhile, nothing will change here during that process!!! Then JBPA will be thumping their chests in victory, saying how great it is to have "one voice" in our airline-- great!!! Thanks for nothing, and oh by the way JBPA, what are the start-up costs going to be, certainly not enough with just 1% of my pay the first few months as they try to get our first CBA hammered out... How long are their lawyers going to work pro-bono? So please, tell me how much is going to come out of my pocket for this great insurance policy!!! What if 100-200 pilots decide not to become JBPA members, can JBPA afford life on 1%?

 

[FADEC]

I believe you if that's the way it is now. Obviously you work there and I don't!
However, I would suspect that if one said that they weren't going to clean the cabin during a JB interview, said interview would not have gone very well as that person would not have been construed as a "team player." Further, I would guess that back in the early 00's when JB was booming and everyone was happy to work for low wages and a quick upgrade, if a pilot chose not to clean the cabin that would be viewed very negatively by most of your co-workers. Am I wrong?

What would you have said during your United interview if the same cabin cleaning question came up. And just for the record that question was never asked.I've been at JetBlue for 4 years now. Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190. Life could be worse I could have been hired by United and where would I be now!!!

 

[Truckdriver]

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

How's the FO pay for those FO's that won't upgrade on the 320 for about 20 years?

I was there and my 2nd year FO pay at Delta on the lowest paying aircraft is better than 4th year FO pay on the 320. If I lose my medical I'll get 100% of my pay until I'm 65 and pay about $20/mo for that. Good medical. Good retirement. Good work rules. Most FO's are gonna vote for JBPA.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190.

And as a 4 year airbus FO -- I make the same as you. You are lucky!

 

[nimtz]

What would you have said during your United interview if the same cabin cleaning question came up. And just for the record that question was never asked.I've been at JetBlue for 4 years now. Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190. Life could be worse I could have been hired by United and where would I be now!!!

Well surprisingly pilots cleaning the cabin only seems to come up at one airline during the interview process. Wonder why that is? Might have something to do with a nickel and dime mentality that lead to more crew rest violations in one year then most legacies get in 20 years. But whom am I kidden, we never argue facts on fi.


Thankfully there were fellas like bluebayou and hair-on-fire that willing to 'sacrifice' to ensure a great future. You junior guys should revere them. Through their efforts the 190 is on property and the pay has grown to be SO lucrative...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What would you have said during your United interview if the same cabin cleaning question came up. And just for the record that question was never asked.I've been at JetBlue for 4 years now. Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190. Life could be worse I could have been hired by United and where would I be now!!!

Not sure that type of question would come up at UAL or even DAL.... recall for all the good and bad, these are legacy airlines....

Meaning, at pilot interviews at UAL, they aren't looking for cabin cleaners.....

 

[Bavarian Chef]

And at every major airline flying is outsourced-- don't believe for a moment that management won't consider giving our 190s to another carrier to fly after dissolving 500 pilot jobs due to this economic mess. It's been done before, and it could happen again. You'd be giving them carte blanche to do what it would take to keep this company viable-- including a concessionary contract on our first CBA... Yeah we don't have to vote yes for it, but how long are we going to be willing to wait for one? Meanwhile, nothing will change here during that process!!! Then JBPA will be thumping their chests in victory, saying how great it is to have "one voice" in our airline-- great!!! Thanks for nothing, and oh by the way JBPA, what are the start-up costs going to be, certainly not enough with just 1% of my pay the first few months as they try to get our first CBA hammered out... How long are their lawyers going to work pro-bono? So please, tell me how much is going to come out of my pocket for this great insurance policy!!! What if 100-200 pilots decide not to become JBPA members, can JBPA afford life on 1%?

Listen Colonel Beard,

1. If they outsource 500 jobs , then the "culture" they are so proud of is a sham, and we DEFINITELY needed a union.

2. What's up with the 1% deal? You're so well paid at jb, right? Compared to all the legacies, I mean. What's the big deal anyway? Besides, your starting to whine.

3. Closed shop.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Not sure that type of question would come up at UAL or even DAL.... recall for all the good and bad, these are legacy airlines....

Meaning, at pilot interviews at UAL, they aren't looking for cabin cleaners.....

Nicely put.

 

[ualdriver]

What would you have said during your United interview if the same cabin cleaning question came up. And just for the record that question was never asked.I've been at JetBlue for 4 years now. Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190. Life could be worse I could have been hired by United and where would I be now!!!

Oh give me a break. Who's going to ask that question at a UAL interview? The UAL Captain conducting the interview? Yeah right. HR? Hell no. If the HR person asked that question during a pilot interview the interview Captain sitting right next to him would probably start laughing his ass off and promptly state, "next question please."

 

[Blue Dude]

Thanks for nothing, and oh by the way JBPA, what are the start-up costs going to be, certainly not enough with just 1% of my pay the first few months as they try to get our first CBA hammered out... How long are their lawyers going to work pro-bono? So please, tell me how much is going to come out of my pocket for this great insurance policy!!! What if 100-200 pilots decide not to become JBPA members, can JBPA afford life on 1%?

This has been asked and answered any number of times. You can't have any interest in the answer and not have heard it by now. So I can only assume that you're (vainly) trying to score points against JBPA by asking leading questions with no intention of eliciting cogent information. So get off it. In less than a week, we'll either have a union or we won't. If we do, I hope you get involved in a more constructive way than you have so far. If we don't, you can comfortably continue to snipe from the sidelines because that'll be the only input you'll be permitted to have.

 

[linepilot]

You guys are talking about airlines where pilots have some authority and respect.

 

[FADEC]

Oh give me a break. Who's going to ask that question at a UAL interview? The UAL Captain conducting the interview? Yeah right. HR? Hell no. If the HR person asked that question during a pilot interview the interview Captain sitting right next to him would probably start laughing his ass off and promptly state, "next question please."

I was never asked that question at my JetBlue interview. Likewise, I never subjected myself to your super anal scantron form either. I heard too many horror stories about the latter. Evidently you like United and I'll tell you right up front I like JetBlue. Additionally, I voted for union representation because ultimately I believe it will help our overall compensation package to improve. Will United be giving furloughed pilots perferential interviews for their new Aer lingus codeshare.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

You're right that the devil is in the details. My point was to counter the assertion that we're behind everyone in every area. Simply not true.