LAS Picket huge success

[El Chupacabra]

It sounds reasonable that a crew have the same 8 hurs protected resst for their entire tour. Be it 2200 – 0600 or 1800 – 0200. It makes sense. It just requires more pilots to cover the demand. Less work = less pay. I thought you wanted to increase your wages all that you could. So work fewer days and get paid less? That sounds opposite from what you have stated in the past. Why would you want to get paid less?

I am already working enough to rate 3 times my pay now. I can take a little less than triple.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Someone who falls asleep due to being pushed all week by scheduling, does not merit being terminated.

El, anyone who falls asleep on the job - any job- for any reason would be fired.

think about it - firefighters work weird hours, if one falls asleep at a fire, he is fired. He can sleep while waiting for a call - but he better not fall asleep at 4 am while sitting in the truck at a fire even if his circadium rhythms are all screwed up.

Police officer works double duty- falls asleep in his car while parked at the side of the road - fired.

What job can I have that if I fall asleep I will not get fired?

If you come up with one, let us all know- I want THAT job!!

You don't fired at most jobs for falling asleep due to ABUSIVE scheduling. You get a pat on the back for going to the limit and you get sent home for some rest.

I'll tell you what. Let's self disclose this one to the FAA shall we? I like to know the corrective action that we will take to prevent this.

Another example of fine leadership from the DeathStar.

 

[FAcFriend]

You don't fired at most jobs for falling asleep due to ABUSIVE scheduling. You get a pat on the back for going to the limit and you get sent home for some rest.

Again, I disagree. You do get fired for falling asleep after working double shifts, day shifts, nights shifts, OT etc.

 

[dsptchrnja]

A proposal is already out on the table to have a permanant Protected Rest time period.... A crew may be assigned 2200 to 0600E. This crew will then know that between those hours all tour long They will be in a hotel... not at the FBO not in a plane. Every day the whole tour long. No matter what. This is designed to protect circadian cycle. This is the proposal of the 135 ARC... The company is aware of it because they are on the ARC.

How about 12 hrs min rest periods? Shorter duty period limits.

How about FEWER work days... NOT MORE!

Shift work for pilots sounds interesting. I'm not downing the idea, just wondering how much support it would have from your fellow crewmembers. Seems like they are already complaining that they are on duty early in the morning with nothing to do. This seems to just make that the norm? But if you guys want that I don't see why the company wouldn't buy into it. Who would get the worst shifts? Lowest seniority?

 

[TheRealDeal]

Why didn't as many crews call in before? That would be the real crux of the safety issue. But everyone reading these threads knows we are not talking about a safety issue, we are talking about a union agenda. This has already been made clear by a crewmember earlier in this post, quite voluntarily. No one has to wonder why the sudden increase. QUOTE]

You are way off on this one.
Crew used to push themselves further for a Company that treated them well. That is no longer this Company. We used to go the extra mile, suck it up a bit more but it was a 2 way street.
The changes in management has made sure that this is no longer true.

Why keep busting your ass for folks that just want to screw you or better yet replace you?

They reap what they sow.

 

[TheRealDeal]

and while in negoatiations, BO and committee
don't have to fly
don't have to work 14 hour days
don't have to be away from home as much
don't have to eat crew food
don't have to carry luggage
His wife is happier because he is not on the road as much-

The only thing this guy doesnt have is more money- but that is debatable because we all know it costs any family more money to have one member on the road alot. Netjets wife taught us that.

You're a slanderous as*hole. The committee is working from a survey, not their best (self) interests.

I re-read your post just to be sure I didn't miss something. I didn't, you're a jerk.

NETJETWIFE doesn't know her head from a hole in the ground!
It that family has $ problems they are just stupid and no example of a typical NJA family. You tack her hubby's retirement onto our NJA pay and I promise you this house would be feeling flush! She can gripe about the pay levels but not her families income!

 

[Starman]

The real issue isn't if the crew was fatigued or not - the issue is that they were fired without any proof. Two weeks after the trip is over they are brought into Columbus on some trumped up charges that the owner came up to check on them and they were both asleep. The crew strongly denied this allegation. For the record : no missed radio calls - no missed turns - no deviations. Just an owner complaint.

This same crew had complained about fatigue on that tour. The fatigue call they made caused the company a bunch of problems during that day. Two weeks later they are called in and fired. I wonder if there was a connection?

The crew in question are both minorities. The owner is a rich white guy. The owner is a buddy of Santulli. I wonder if there was a connection?

This stupid act is going to bite the company in the ass in so many ways. The managers here must be taking stupid pills.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Crew used to push themselves further for a Company that treated them well. That is no longer this Company. We used to go the extra mile, suck it up a bit more but it was a 2 way street.
The changes in management has made sure that this is no longer true.

Why keep busting your ass for folks that just want to screw you or better yet replace you?

They reap what they sow.

RealDeal, with all sincerity, I certainly won't try to debate the legitimacy of how you feel. I haven't walked a day in your shoes. I only regret that you feel that way. It is unforntunate indeed for both you and the company.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

These stupid acts are going to bite the company in the ass in so many ways. The managers here must be taking stupid pills.

I'm just waiting for one of these stupid a$$ "owners" to cross the line and be caught interfering with the duties of a flight crew in flight. They'll be arrested at a diversionary aerodrome and we'll find out who put them up to it when they squeal like the piglets they are. 'Nuf said?

 

[FLYLOW22]

I think most of the "professional crewmembers" are staying clear of this board.

So why are you here then?

 

[FLYLOW22]

You need not worry because the company will always err of the side of safety, especially if you call fatigue and grant your wish. We wouldn’t want you falling asleep on the job.

Wow. News to me.

 

[FLYLOW22]

It sounds reasonable that a crew have the same 8 hurs protected resst for their entire tour. Be it 2200 – 0600 or 1800 – 0200. It makes sense. It just requires more pilots to cover the demand. Less work = less pay. I thought you wanted to increase your wages all that you could. So work fewer days and get paid less? That sounds opposite from what you have stated in the past. Why would you want to get paid less?

WARNING!!!! BILL BOISTURE BS BRIEFING MATERIAL!!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

think about it - firefighters work weird hours, if one falls asleep at a fire, he is fired. He can sleep while waiting for a call - but he better not fall asleep at 4 am while sitting in the truck at a fire even if his circadium rhythms are all screwed up.

Oh. That is a very realistic example.

I can see it now...

A 5 alarm fire in a chemical warehouse is raging. The firefighter is struggling to breathe his portable O2 through the mask in the intense heat and he thinks to himself, "Self, I think I'll just take a seat her and get in a quick 5 minute nap".

I can see how the firefighter exampe is just like the example of a pilot sitting in the same spot, motionless, with sunlight warming the cockpit and the constant droning of the engines massaging the ears whilst the jetsteam gentle rocks the cabin to and fro.

Exactly alike.

 

[dsptchrnja]

So why are you here then?

Compare my member date with the time I started responding to posts. 95% of my posts are in defense of alledged crewmembers slandering my company and making false allegations. When this stops I'll be happy to slip back into oblivion. Thanks for asking.

 

[FAcFriend]

Oh. That is a very realistic example.

I can see it now...

A 5 alarm fire in a chemical warehouse is raging. The firefighter is struggling to breathe his portable O2 through the mask in the intense heat and he thinks to himself, "Self, I think I'll just take a seat her and get in a quick 5 minute nap".

I can see how the firefighter exampe is just like the example of a pilot sitting in the same spot, motionless, with sunlight warming the cockpit and the constant droning of the engines massaging the ears whilst the jetsteam gentle rocks the cabin to and fro.

Exactly alike.

You obviously know nothing about firefighting.

To enlighten you-

you can work multiple shifts, you can be held over an extra day even if you have beach plans. You work weird hours that can interfer with circadium rythms.

Every firefighter at the scene is not "doing the tv firefighter job".

One guy stays up all night at the house.

It's a tough job, try to explain why the guy shouldnt be fired when the phone rings and the guy says "cottage street instead of college street." in the microphone.

Hey, life or death but he had to work an extra shift because his relief had a car accident, two extra calls came in at 4:30, etc...

Two kids died at the fire- explain to that mother that it was scheduling's fault.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Compare my member date with the time I started responding to posts. 95% of my posts are in defense of alledged crewmembers slandering my company and making false allegations. When this stops I'll be happy to slip back into oblivion. Thanks for asking.

Translation: When the pilot contract is completed or this company implodes, NetJets will no longer require my services as a Union Busting lacky.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You obviously know nothing about firefighting.

To enlighten you-

you can work multiple shifts, you can be held over an extra day even if you have beach plans. You work weird hours that can interfer with circadium rythms.

I guess I miss your point. In both jobs, if enough of a mistake is made then people can die. Scheduling plays a big part.

The biology of the matter plays a part. The perfect schedule on paper doesn't always allign itself with the human factor. Answer: Fatigue calls.

Fatigue calls have NEVER been a significant factor in cancelled flights at this company. "Less than 1%" of cancellations are due to tired calls. I think this point has been made clear by Just Gary many times over.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Translation: When the pilot contract is completed or this company implodes, NetJets will no longer require my services as a Union Busting lacky.

I could care less about your union.

 

[b757driver]

When I asked why they didn't buy from the leader in the industry, NJA, they replied that, "In light of their current labor problems, NetJets is no longer a premium product."

GV[/QUOTE]

Just about sums it up. Companies will start realising that when they screw their own employees, it will come back to bite them in their bottom line. Employees are supposed to be an asset, not a reluctant commodity which is how many airlines treat them.
I was solicited by NJA when I attended a job fair earlier this year. Despite all the hype on equipment and state-of-the art hangars, I did not follow up. Why? Because I did not want to be insulted by getting a salary lower than a NYC cab driver and one that is currentl 40-50% LESS than what I'm making now. That's too much of a hit and no one in their right mind would go for something like that.
Good luck to all & hope you still have a job down the line. Been there, done that.

 

[Some guy]

I could care less about your union.

Amen!