Just like a 150...

[SSDD]

F and F,

Quit while you're ahead! Your post keep betraying your superior airmanship!

A FORWARD slip is NOT how we land in a crosswind...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Probabily a CRJ pilot, they think that the pedals are for brakes, on the ground, and thinks coordinated flight means not getting Que Bueno grease on their shirt.

 

[imacdog]

I'm just glad the guy knows how to control an airplane. There are so many people on the line who takeoff disregarding aerodynamics by failing to put in crosswind correction and yanking the plane off the ground, then wallow back and forth during the climbout because they are not looking out side or just have a equilibrium that is out of sync, then focus all their attention on that stupid little banana bar even if it runs them into a mountain.

Airmanship is comprised of both professionalism and being able to control your airplane with YOUR hands and feet.

Lastly, for those who think they would never perform a slip in a transport category airplane, do you realize that is how you land in a crosswind?

Repeat after me, please. "A forward slip is not the same as a side slip to land in a crosswind". Then kindly please go fly cargo and not passengers.

 

[FishandFly]

read this whole thing or just skip down to the section that states "aerodynamically a side slip and forward slip are identical".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_%28aerodynamic%29#Forward-slip_vs._sideslip

Didn't you guys ever get into the aerodynamics for naval aviators?

 

[FishandFly]

Or hit page 14 of this for a picture to understand the relative wind and learn a bit more about it.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-4of7.pdf

 

[imacdog]

For the last time this has nothing to do with aerodynamic theory.

 

[FishandFly]

Seriously? The suggestion is made that you are never to slip a hershey bar airplane that operates in the transport category. There is no mention of it being out of line due to safety, only due to what you call good airmanship, and now the fact that we are slipping the airplane every crosswind landing is irrelevant?

Let me give an example of great airmanship played out in a specific example.

You're flying with 50 or 300 people in the back. You've had a complete flame out. You have committed yourself to a runway. You end up high (which was probably the right side to err on).

I consider good airmanship in this moment to be safely landing on the runway. An additional benefit of slipping is the fact that you don't commit yourself nearly as much to the drag you are bringing on as you do when you start going full dirty.

I have personally slipped the crj in the sim. Why? Because my sim instructor wanted us to realize that despite all the extra crap, the airplane is still nothing more than an airplane. Hence my frustration with those who think it can not perform aerodynamically because it has people in the back.

And by the way, in the crj at low speed and 100% slip you will initiate a snap roll. However you can sense the loss of aileron effectiveness and adjust.

 

[SSDD]

All I can say is: WOW!!!

 

[Quimby]

If you are in a situation where you have to slip a transport category airplane in revenue operations, you already screwed up by not electing to go around. I am not slamming the crew, but I think it showed poor judgement. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should...just sayin'

+1

Especially in a 121 turboprop. No excuse. Giant speedbrake thingies attached to the front of the engines should fix screwups, along with the gear.

 

[Quimby]

Seriously? The suggestion is made that you are never to slip a hershey bar airplane that operates in the transport category. There is no mention of it being out of line due to safety, only due to what you call good airmanship, and now the fact that we are slipping the airplane every crosswind landing is irrelevant?

Let me give an example of great airmanship played out in a specific example.

You're flying with 50 or 300 people in the back. You've had a complete flame out. You have committed yourself to a runway. You end up high (which was probably the right side to err on).

I consider good airmanship in this moment to be safely landing on the runway. An additional benefit of slipping is the fact that you don't commit yourself nearly as much to the drag you are bringing on as you do when you start going full dirty.

I have personally slipped the crj in the sim. Why? Because my sim instructor wanted us to realize that despite all the extra crap, the airplane is still nothing more than an airplane. Hence my frustration with those who think it can not perform aerodynamically because it has people in the back.

And by the way, in the crj at low speed and 100% slip you will initiate a snap roll. However you can sense the loss of aileron effectiveness and adjust.

If you have a dual flameout in real life, you do whatever you have to do. Slipping a CRJ sim.......BFD. Slipping a jet or tprop in real life, on final, to get down?....you've already screwed up. Go-around & do it again.

I can't believe some of you fly passengers.

 

[OPECJet]

Never tried it in the Dash 8, but watched a guy do it in a Citation X. I was not impressed.

What does stable approach criteria think of that slip? That in and of itself is reason not to do it in a transport category airplane.

 

[belchfire]

I never slipped the dreaded J-ball, that thing would come down like a bag of anvils!

 

[blesko]

In the crj it is a qrh procedure in cruise flight with no altitude restriction to accomplish gravity crossflow and you are telling me that increasing drag with a hershey bar wing is unsafe?

So, naysayers, what is the safety concern here?

Agreed. Cert rules require a Vdive descent with a full rudder travel then back to neutral during the initial TSDS, even the A300 went through it, however the immediate reversal was the issue.

 

[bobs98tlr]

I'm not saying the airplane or the crew can't handle it, but we are in the passenger comfort business. So while fun for the crew, it can't be very comforting to the average passenger.

Bingo!

Crazy how many guys forget this.

 

[SLUF4]

I wonder what the stabilized approach criteria is at that airline? I'm guessing the vertical speed was probably pretty high.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I'm not saying the airplane or the crew can't handle it, but we are in the passenger comfort business. So while fun for the crew, it can't be very comforting to the average passenger.

I agree too.

I was on an MD-88 that started to do S-turns on final and it freaked out a bunch of passengers. One lady even screamed out loud.

We have plenty of passengers on our flights that are afraid to fly, so go have fun on your days off with airplanes.

 

[kf4amu]

The CRJ is proof that the airline industry does not care about passenger comfort.

 

[CA1900]

The CRJ is proof that the airline industry does not care about passenger comfort.

After 3+ hours in one from San Antonio to LA, I couldn't agree more. Ugh.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Suppose after the successful slip you lose nosewheel steering (completely unrelated) and go off the runway and the FDR is pulled. How many "Humenna Humenna's" will you get out during the interrogation that follows? Will your union even return your calls or are you going to call up Yeager and see if he'll go to bat for you?

 

[kf4amu]

Suppose after the successful slip you lose nosewheel steering (completely unrelated) and go off the runway and the FDR is pulled. How many "Humenna Humenna's" will you get out during the interrogation that follows? Will your union even return your calls or are you going to call up Yeager and see if he'll go to bat for you?

That would suck but hopefully someone who can slip a Dash 8 safely also can operate it safely with the nosewheel steering inop.

 

[svcta]

Forward slip? So, what exactly is the difference between a forward slip and a slip of the side variety? Is there a backward slip? Quartering slip? Upward slip?

Sorry, its a pet peeve.

 

[sunlitpath]

Here is an XJET instructor describing glidepath adjustment technique; I think it may be helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BicMzC3Bq7o

 

[say again]

Forward slip? So, what exactly is the difference between a forward slip and a slip of the side variety? Is there a backward slip? Quartering slip? Upward slip?

Sorry, its a pet peeve.

That really bothers you?!?! Sorry to hear that. I suggest you call the FAA and see what you can do to get the term changed.

 

[CA1900]

Forward slip? So, what exactly is the difference between a forward slip and a slip of the side variety?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_slip#Forward-slip


Please let us know if you have any other private pilot questions.

 

[imacdog]

One is an accepted technique for crosswind landings and the other is what Dash-8 pilots who think they are really cool do.

 

[wms]

The CRJ is proof that the airline industry does not care about passenger comfort.

Along worth ORD terminal F and IAD terminal A.

 

[wms]

I agree too.

I was on an MD-88 that started to do S-turns on final and it freaked out a bunch of passengers. One lady even screamed out loud.

We have plenty of passengers on our flights that are afraid to fly, so go have fun on your days off with airplanes.

The screams are part of the fun. .

In Barry Schiff's video, he says he used to slip the L1011!

 

[jonjuan]

After 3+ hours in one from San Antonio to LA, I couldn't agree more. Ugh.

You get the comfort you pay for. Isn't that what you tell your pax?

 

[wrxpilot]

If only it had large whirling discs that could be adjusted to increase drag...

Exactly. When I flew the Brasilia, if you needed more drag than that offered by flaps 45, gear down, and condition levers max, I'd say you done effed up real bad. Maybe the Q400 is a lot more slippery than the old Bro?

 

[airplane wizard]

The CRJ is proof that the airline industry does not care about passenger comfort.

The $99 airfare is proof that passengers don't care about airline profits.