DoinTime said:I think the BIG question is how did you end up on their email list? The rest of us didn't get that email.
Good point.
I didn't get that email either.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
DoinTime said:I think the BIG question is how did you end up on their email list? The rest of us didn't get that email.
AvroJockey said:The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.
AvroJockey said:
BTW, as I said previously, anyone can learn how to fly a CRJ, physical flying isn't hard! It's the management of airline flying that is tasking. Effective management if based on mainly on judgement, not skill. One can learn judgement through training but mostly through practical experience, and PFT's don't have practical experience. One might content that FO's will gain said experience in the right seat! This is complete BS! Though we all learn things every day, Regular Line Captain's are not there to teach you how to fly a CRJ. If this is what is going on, you are a liability, and threat to aviation safety.
IMHO ALPA should be installing hiring minimums in collective bargaining agreements. If there were minimums of say, 2000TT/800ME, it would decrease the supply of qualifiied pilots, and raise the median wage rate. It would aslo make PFT programs cost prohibitive, candidates would be forced to earn it the "old fashioned way," and therefore gain the proper experience to effectively manage as a airline pilot.
Joe Schmo said:Maybe you should resist shooting off your mouth until either one of two things happen:
1.) You exceed the 1200 hour mark and actually work in the airline industry
2.) Develop the slightest clue of what the subject matter is
Not to put you down, but pay for training programs is what lower the standards of this industry.
FlyBunny said:Wow…why on this earth should I – in that case Jet University enrollees care about you or your future.
FlyBunny said:No, your future has no bearing on mine, and mine has no bearing on yours. It's a simple case of dislike for those who have had a relatively easy 'path' to airline industry than you and I did.
FlyBunny said:Those who could afford to go UND/ERAU/Purdue, can apply to regionals with as little as 300TT and 50 ME...now, to you, that's UNACCEPTABLE, isn't it?
FlyBunny said:As for as 'pay for training', anyone EVER, who didn't come through the military, PAID FOR TRAINING. When you've paid so much to get the CAX ME, CFI, etc., why not pay little more, if you could afford, and 'get in' quicker?
How many of you on this board bought ME time? I know 100s of airline pilots who have bought ME time and flew mindless X-countries, but were able to cut the line to the interview room based simply on the fact that they could afford to BUY the ME time, when others couldn't. Not ANY different than ‘paying for training’.
I have one person flying with me right now who did exactly that...went to Ari Ben (I think that's what the outfits name is) and bought 100 hours.
Would you buy 100 ME if it guarantees you A320 flying?
I WOULD IN A HEART BEAT!
FlyBunny said:No, your future has no bearing on mine, and mine has no bearing on yours. It's a simple case of dislike for those who have had a relatively easy 'path' to airline industry than you and I did.
Those who could afford to go UND/ERAU/Purdue, can apply to regionals with as little as 300TT and 50 ME...now, to you, that's UNACCEPTABLE, isn't it?
They are not any different than these 'would-be' Jet University graduates.
As for as 'pay for training', anyone EVER, who didn't come through the military, PAID FOR TRAINING. When you've paid so much to get the CAX ME, CFI, etc., why not pay little more, if you could afford, and 'get in' quicker?
How many of you on this board bought ME time? I know 100s of airline pilots who have bought ME time and flew mindless X-countries, but were able to cut the line to the interview room based simply on the fact that they could afford to BUY the ME time, when others couldn't. Not ANY different than ‘paying for training’.
I have one person flying with me right now who did exactly that...went to Ari Ben (I think that's what the outfits name is) and bought 100 hours.
Would you buy 100 ME if it guarantees you A320 flying?
I WOULD IN A HEART BEAT!
FlyBunny said:Would you buy 100 ME if it guarantees you A320 flying?
I WOULD IN A HEART BEAT!
Your missing my point! Re-read my post, and you'll find I'm indeed looking out for the future of those pilots, as should ALPA!!! Our wage rates have not kept up with inflation, and this one of the reasons why. Yet ALPA is still resorting to archaic, pre-deregulation tactics. There are pleanty of unions and professional associations that have used economics to increase wages (the trades, doctors, etc.).FlyBunny said:I must say if there’s a ‘height’ of selfishness, I see that in any pilot group. It’s all about ‘ME, MY PROGRESS, MY CAREER BUT I DON’T’ CARE ABOUT YOU, I DON’T KNOW YOU, YOU DON’T KNOW ME, BUT I WANT YOU TO CARE ABOUT ME’.
Wow…why on this earth should I – in that case Jet University enrollees care about you or your future. They have to see what’s in it for them. If the program is good, and get them what they ‘want’ at the end, then my friend, more power to them. As per your theory, UND/ERAU/many other four-year schools, should be banned from establishing internship programs with regional/major airlines, because, it’d would surprise you to find out, that most of those who interned are hired with lot less hours than those who have ‘paid’ their dues.
You know…I have NEVER seen the level of ‘selfishness’ and this kind of view for the new hires or the system itself in any other field (Medical/Engineering/Law, etc.). It’s only in flying (regional/major airlines) that it’s so prevalent to assume that you should have every thing and if there was a degree of physical, financial, logistical difficulty or the time period it took you to get the job, then no one else should be allowed to reach this point without suffering the way you did (what you call ‘paid my dues).
FlyBunny said:I have no problem with anything like that. In Europe we have pilots flying A320s, even 747s with less than 1000 hours. It’s different for everyone. Live and Let Live!
the answer is a single seniority list, with ALPA setting the bar as far as who is qualified to fly airliners! ALPA should be setting the hiring minimums, and setting the training standards! In fact, one could go as far as ALPA doing the hiring and the training of airline pilots and then supplying them to the airlines. They would totally control the supply!Rez O. Lewshun said:Well.. lot's of observations here about how jacked up this is....
Question is what are or can you do about it?
Anyone?