Just got this e-mail.

[wmuflyguy]

I thought the same thing. I attended a state school with an aviation program, CFI'ed there for a little over a year and went corporate for a year before I went to the airlines. Does the FAA let the database out?

For a second I almost thought it was from that certain "state school aviation program". They just installed one of those CRJ FTD's.

I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to sell soemthing like this.

 

[AvroJockey]

So, are we jealous of those people who might be able to put finances together which you couldn't?

And your reference of 'old fashion', does that mean you should be given a priority over those who could didn't have to make $8/hour as CFIs? Huh.

Bunny

The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.

BTW, as I said previously, anyone can learn how to fly a CRJ, physical flying isn't hard! It's the management of airline flying that is tasking. Effective management if based on mainly on judgement, not skill. One can learn judgement through training but mostly through practical experience, and PFT's don't have practical experience. One might content that FO's will gain said experience in the right seat! This is complete BS! Though we all learn things every day, Regular Line Captain's are not there to teach you how to fly a CRJ. If this is what is going on, you are a liability, and threat to aviation safety.

IMHO ALPA should be installing hiring minimums in collective bargaining agreements. If there were minimums of say, 2000TT/800ME, it would decrease the supply of qualifiied pilots, and raise the median wage rate. It would aslo make PFT programs cost prohibitive, candidates would be forced to earn it the "old fashioned way," and therefore gain the proper experience to effectively manage as a airline pilot.

 

[MINIME]

The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.

Excellent point!!! I totally agree with this view. Airlines, especially regionals, love pilot factories. It keeps their supply of fresh meat fresh. Which in turn allows them to keep the course to the bottom. Their idialogy during these times is that if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in back cause they got a thousad juniors waiting in line salivating for your spot. Supply and demand is not on the pilot's side yet.Too many kids with unlimited bank accounts that want to be just like top gun.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Let me get this straight. You pay $20K and aren't even hired by an airline? Then you have to go through the interview process and initial training, spending more of your own money? So this is basically a $20,000 interview prep?!!! YGBSM!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well.. lot's of observations here about how jacked up this is....

Question is what are or can you do about it?







Anyone?

 

[hockeypilot44]

The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.

Excellent point!!! I totally agree with this view. Airlines, especially regionals, love pilot factories. It keeps their supply of fresh meat fresh. Which in turn allows them to keep the course to the bottom. Their idialogy during these times is that if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in back cause they got a thousad juniors waiting in line salivating for your spot. Supply and demand is not on the pilot's side yet.Too many kids with unlimited bank accounts that want to be just like top gun.

That is probably one of the best ideas I have ever seen on this board. It would not help mainline, but it would be a start to driving up regional wages.

 

[Joe Schmo]

So, are we jealous of those people who might be able to put finances together which you couldn't?

And your reference of 'old fashion', does that mean you should be given a priority over those who could didn't have to make $8/hour as CFIs? Huh.

Bunny

Maybe you should resist shooting off your mouth until either one of two things happen:

1.) You exceed the 1200 hour mark and actually work in the airline industry

2.) Develop the slightest clue of what the subject matter is

Not to put you down, but pay for training programs is what lower the standards of this industry.

 

[hopalong]

The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.

BTW, as I said previously, anyone can learn how to fly a CRJ, physical flying isn't hard! It's the management of airline flying that is tasking. Effective management if based on mainly on judgement, not skill. One can learn judgement through training but mostly through practical experience, and PFT's don't have practical experience. One might content that FO's will gain said experience in the right seat! This is complete BS! Though we all learn things every day, Regular Line Captain's are not there to teach you how to fly a CRJ. If this is what is going on, you are a liability, and threat to aviation safety.

IMHO ALPA should be installing hiring minimums in collective bargaining agreements. If there were minimums of say, 2000TT/800ME, it would decrease the supply of qualifiied pilots, and raise the median wage rate. It would aslo make PFT programs cost prohibitive, candidates would be forced to earn it the "old fashioned way," and therefore gain the proper experience to effectively manage as a airline pilot.

AMEN!!!!

 

[ballsdeep123]

The core of the this PFT/SJS debate is not whether 500 pilots can fly a CRJ, any monkey can be trained to fly an airplane. The problem is hiring pilots with low time increases the supply of pilots, or "qualified" candidates! These people are suppressing the career progression of the pilot group as a whole, at least pay wise, and shooting themselves in the foot. Don't you ever wonder why these programs are sponsored by airlines! Managements want this to happen, because economically, it increases the supply of airline pilots, and therefore decreases the labor price (wage rate). That's why people are pissed off!!! Especially because ALPA is not doing anything about it, and that is part of their job as a union...controlling supply, to get the highest wages! Read any microeconomics text and it will tell you this.

BTW, as I said previously, anyone can learn how to fly a CRJ, physical flying isn't hard! It's the management of airline flying that is tasking. Effective management if based on mainly on judgement, not skill. One can learn judgement through training but mostly through practical experience, and PFT's don't have practical experience. One might content that FO's will gain said experience in the right seat! This is complete BS! Though we all learn things every day, Regular Line Captain's are not there to teach you how to fly a CRJ. If this is what is going on, you are a liability, and threat to aviation safety.

IMHO ALPA should be installing hiring minimums in collective bargaining agreements. If there were minimums of say, 2000TT/800ME, it would decrease the supply of qualifiied pilots, and raise the median wage rate. It would aslo make PFT programs cost prohibitive, candidates would be forced to earn it the "old fashioned way," and therefore gain the proper experience to effectively manage as a airline pilot.

AvroJockey,

That is the best anaylisis of anything I've ever read on here. I hope the people who do programs like this, or who think it's pilots being jealous about not being able to have the "finances" to do programs like this will get the point. Unfortunately, people who support these types of things probably won't learn until they've got the sinny jet syndrome out of their systems and have been screwed by managment at an airline.

At the airline I work for, I have heard an alarming amount of complaints from captains about the new F/O's who lack basic flying skills. I'm sure they did great in the sim and in training, but there is a certain amout of decision making and basic skills that are learned from "doing it the old fashion way". Captains shouldn't have to be flight instructors.

 

[BuzzSaw]

Nothing!!

There will be saps willing to do it..... because it is cool....

BuzzSaw