JetBlue to land in ATL

[Race Pilot]

We do have deeper pockets to keep matching fares longer

Its kind of funny that this way of thinking seems to prevail at a lot of places. I read it as "We'll just keep losing money on this route just to screw with these other guys who are making money flying the same route." Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Delta, never have, hopefully never will. As I've said before I have a lot of friends there and hope they all stay employed. I know a few who were there who are not anymore (employed that is) and it sucks. They are back in the AF to make ends meet, a place that two years ago was the worst place in the world to them.

It's also funny that through the rest of the post about Song being a "superior" product all that is mentioned are the gadgets in the airplane and the airframe type itself. Never once does it talk about customer service. I guess they still don't get it.

I'm just glad that JetBlue doesn't open new markets to screw with people knowing they are probably going to lose money there. We instead do a significant amount of research and when it all lines up that its good for our customers and good for us, then we do it. If we operated with the mentality of the quote above, our profit sharing checks would stink. As a matter of fact, I guess there wouldn't be one.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Race,

You summed it up perfectly -- hit the nail right on the head.

At my previous airline, US Airways, I rarely had passenger after passenger commend me on the "great flight" as they deplaned. And, I think US Airways had pretty good customer service by major airline standards.

Now, at JetBlue, I hear from passengers literally all the time how great the flight was -- I hear it over and over. I haven't non-revved on my own company much, but our cabin crews must be doing one heck of a hat dance back there.

It takes a lot more than cosmetic things to create a product like that which JetBlue offers. It's an attitude of service which makes the product.

 

[goflyme]

You guys are insane if you think customer service or gadgets will swoon customers, the bottom line is ticket price. With ticket price being equal its a toss up, some will choose Delta because of their reputation and some will choose Blue because they want to give it a try.
Bottom line, its the cheapest fare wins.

 

[rapidD]

goflyme

You're right on the money (pun intended). As a DAL pilot, I too have had hundreds of pax thank me for a "good flight," customer service, etc. Consumers will flock to the cheapest ticket, not gimmicks like singing and joking FAs, satellite TV, or internet access. In a downturned economy, dollars speak volumes. You can give all the customer service you want, and most carriers try to do that, but the bottom line is cost. In my mind, that's been SWA's claim to fame the whole time. When the economy bounces back, then the perks will matter. Most consumers don't even know what they're getting or not getting other than a ride from point A to point B.

 

[Jeff G]

You guys are insane if you think customer service or gadgets will swoon customers, the bottom line is ticket price. With ticket price being equal its a toss up, some will choose Delta because of their reputation and some will choose Blue because they want to give it a try.
Bottom line, its the cheapest fare wins.

JetBlue gets a fare premium on routes that it competes on with Delta and American. JetBlue's average fare is $15 to $20 higher, at the same time load factor is higher. The reason for that is either: a) customer service or b) gadgets. Obviously fares are competitively low, but not rock bottom. It's the competing major that needs the rock bottom fare to even halfway fill their planes. Reputation, maybe?

Geez, I'm getting tired of this same argument. If it was only price, Spirit and National would rule the world (apologies to Enigma). And rapidD, customers couldn't care less what the airline's costs are. Screw it, I'm taking a break. Y'all have fun.

 

[Flying Freddie]

There you have it. Delta wins hands down. Keep giving lousy service with an attitude.

 

[NYRANGERS]

What's up with this?

Is JetBlue loosing 5 slots in Long Beach?







AGREEMENT OVERVIEW

The agreement provides a mechanism to resolve a dispute between the City of Long Beach and various commercial air carriers regarding the allocation of flight slots at the Long Beach Airport. It avoids threatened litigation and confirms the integrity of the City’s Airport Noise Ordinance.

Parties: City of Long Beach, American Airlines, JetBlue Airways, and Alaska Airlines

Effective Date: February 5, 2003, provided City receives written unqualified acceptance of agreement terms by FAA no later than February 28, 2003

Expiration Date: January 1, 2009

Background Concepts:

1. Regular Departures – The current Ordinance imposes limits on the number of daily departures permitted by scheduled commercial passenger and cargo operators, as well as other classes of aircraft operators. The Ordinance provides that the City may allocate to commercial passenger and cargo operators a minimum of forty-one (41) daily departures.

2. Noise Analysis Study – The Ordinance further provides for an annual study to identify existing Airport noise activity and to determine the CNEL (Community Noise Event Level) for a twelve-month period.

3. CNEL – This is the measure of average noise environment over a 24-hour period (weighted to penalize noise at night). CNEL has three basic time periods:

Noise events from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. have a weighting factor of one (1).

Noise events from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. have a weighting factor of three (3).

Noise events from 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. have a weighting factor of ten (10).

The reason for these weightings is to reflect the increased disturbance caused by noise during the evening and nighttime hours.

4. Supplemental Departures - If the annual noise analysis indicates that the allocation of supplemental departures will not cause Air Carriers to exceed the maximum CNEL budget permitted for Air Carrier users, additional flights can be allocated:

Only for one-year periods of time;

Only to the extent that the established Air Carrier noise budget has not been fully utilized during the prior year; and

Only to the extent that the Airport Manager determines that the allocation will not exceed the maximum CNEL permitted budget.

CORE AGREEMENT TERMS

1. The Agreement is effective only if written concurrence with terms is received from FAA no later than February 28, 2003. When the terms as set forth in Section 4.2 of the Agreement are approved by the FAA, the City's existing Noise Compatibility Ordinance will effectively be strengthened and less vulnerable to a successful court challenge.

2. Effective March 7, 2003, JetBlue will return five (5) of its twenty-seven (27) slots to the City. Three (3) of the slots will be allocated to American Airlines and two slots will be allocated to Alaska Airlines on a permanent basis.

[Final Allocation: JetBlue (22), American (7), America West (5), Alaska (2), UPS (2), FedEx (2) and Airborne Express (1) for a total of 41.]

3. Alaska Airlines will be permitted to delay implementation of its two (2) permanent slots until February 15, 2004. During the interim period, JetBlue and American will each be permitted to operate one (1) of the two (2) slots allocated to Alaska Airlines.

4. If American Airlines or Alaska Airlines abandons or cancels any flights allocated pursuant to the Agreement, the flight slots will be "re-allocated" to JetBlue on a permanent basis.

5. The City will perform a noise study no later than October 15, 2003, for the purpose of determining if supplemental slots (exceeding the 41 slot minimum) will be allocated. Council action on the noise study is to take place on or before November 1, 2003. If supplemental slots are available they will become effective on January 1, 2004. The supplemental slot allocation procedure will be performed annually during the term of the Agreement.

6. The Agreement establishes a priority allocation procedure should supplemental slots become available. For calendar year 2004, American would receive the first available supplemental slot, Alaska the second, and JetBlue the third. For the remaining term of the Agreement, the allocation priority rotates among the three carriers.

7. The City will modify its existing ordinance and flight allocation resolution in order to implement the terms of the Agreement.

IMPACT ON AIRLINES

JetBlue

Action When Effective date Section
Return five (5) regular departures W/in 3 days of FAA concurrence (assumes FAA concurrence is prior to March 6) March 6, 2003 2.1.1
JetBlue given rights to any, and all regular departures relinquished by American or Alaska prior to January 1, 2009 (not withstanding any waiting lists maintained by the City) 2.4
Temporary allocation of one (1) Alaska departure is available, subject to some provisions Upon request Expires on February 14, 2004 2.3.2
Established allocation priority of supplemental departures
*Calendar years 2004 through 2008, JB will receive priority supplemental slot allocation positions #4 through 7.
Priority
2004 – 3

2005 – 1

2006 – 2

2007 – 3

2008 –1
January 1st of each year, beginning in 2004 3.2
American

Action When Effective date Section
Temporary agreement for four (4) departures extended Immediately Until March 6, 2003 2.1.1
Permanent allocation of three (3) of the existing temporary departures Per Flight Allocation Process March 6, 2003 (assumes FAA concurrence is prior to March 6) 2.2
Any departures relinquished by American prior to January 1, 2009 (not withstanding any waiting lists maintained by the City) will be allocated to JetBlue 2.4
Temporary allocation of one Alaska (1) departure is available, subject to some provisions Upon request Expires on February 14, 2004 2.3.2
Allocation priority of supplemental departures


*Calendar years 2004 through 2008, JB will receive priority supplemental slot allocation positions #4 through 7.
2004 – 1
2005 – 2

2006 – 3

2007 – 1

2008 –2
January 1st of each year, beginning in 2004 3.2
Alaska

Action When Effective date Section
No impact to current Horizon commuter flights
Granted two (2) regular departures Upon written request and per Flight Allocation requirements Given until February 15, 2004 to initiate service. 2.3
Early initiation of allocated flight slots
At any time after 3/1/03, and before 12/1/03, may request permission to operate their two regular departures.
Must give 90 days written notice to City and airlines Earliest start date is July 1, 2003 2.3.3
Any departures relinquished by Alaska prior to 1/1/09 (not withstanding any waiting lists maintained by the City) will be allocated to JetBlue 2.4
Temporary allocation of two (2) Alaska departures, one to JetBlue & one to American is available, subject to some provisions & time limits Agreement date until Feb 14, 2004. 2.3.2
Allocation priority of supplemental departures


*Calendar years 2004 through 2008, JB will receive priority supplemental slot allocation positions #4 through 7.
2004 – 2
2005 – 3

2006 – 1

2007 – 2

2008 –3
January 1st of each year, beginning in 2004 3.2

S:mais/airline agreement overview.doc

Long Beach Airport
Ph: 562-570-2600 Fax: 562-570-2603
4100 Donald Douglas Dr., Long Beach, CA 90808-1798


Airport Phone Directory

Email: [email protected]

 

[FoxThree]

I deliberately "misunderstood" FoxThree's comment because I thought it was asinine. Sorry you didn't get it.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone and it wasn't a comment it was a question. But you've offended me and just so there's no question, I AM trying to offend you now, pally. I think you are an arrogant a$$hole consumed by your sense of imperial captaincy. Perhaps you are sensitive because you got that job at what is a very low time in your industry.

I guess though that by JetBlue standards you're the "old man." I now see that there is another JetBlue Captain here, JayDub, that has 3000 hrs.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Dear Mister FoxThree,
Perhaps a tad bitter? Stop. Take a deep breath. Have a drink of water to help wash the bile down. Now there, don't you feel better.

 

[rapidD]

Freddie

It appears you're the one that's a tad bitter. If you have 23000 hours as you claim, and you're still a gear puller, I can understand why. Maybe you need another career...I know you have to be tired of flying by now. "Lousy service with an attitdue?" I guess Plato passed you over in a previous life. Thank God.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Dear Mister rapidD,
Bite me.
I held the hemlock for Socrates. All you need is Maalox.

 

[Jeff G]

I think you are an arrogant a$$hole consumed by your sense of imperial captaincy. Perhaps you are sensitive because you got that job at what is a very low time in your industry.

Interesting. So I'm arrogant because I thought your comment (or question) was asinine? Hm. Or perhaps you assume I'm arrogant because I didn't pull gear for ten years in order to be worthy of an A320 captaincy. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I've mentioned on several occasions that I consider myself extremely fortunate to be doing what I'm doing and I'm well aware that it's extraordinary in these times. It's certainly through no great virtue of mine, mostly just great timing. Comments (or questions) like yours are typically driven by either envy or spite, and I'm getting tired of hearing them. But if this is not the case, I do apologize.

I guess though that by JetBlue standards you're the "old man." I now see that there is another JetBlue Captain here, JayDub, that has 3000 hrs.

In JayDub's defense, he's explained this more than once. He has well over 3000 hours, but chooses to list 3000 hrs (the minimum when he was hired) because he doesn't think it's anyone else's business how much time he has. Plus he doesn't want people like you making an issue of it. Fair enough?

 

[JayDub]

NYR<

What you don't see in that agreement is AA agrees to replace the Super 80s with something quieter. That will allow the airport board to grant new slots. The system is based on cumulative dB readings, so the 80s have a big impact.

I think you are an arrogant a$$hole consumed by your sense of imperial captaincy.

Fox Three, I am guessing you are new here. The reason I say this is because you wouldn't believe the number of dudes that have made post after post on this board, just to bolt as soon as they achieve what they are after. JeffG as been a regular poster that has out lasted many more servers than I. Generally, someone like this only stays for the sole purpose of helping others. This can have an effect on that person professionally. Do a search on a screen name of Chase. He's a SWA pilot that left this forum in a hurry with only saying "you wouldn't believe who reads these boards!"

I doubt you hurt his feelings by your comments. He's the one taking the risk trying to help others out. How about you? Are you here to help others, or to get the info you need and bolt like everybody else?

As for my qualifications, why did you miss the plus sign (+) after my hours? The reason for this is more than a year ago the minimum requirements were 3000 hours plus your time allocated in different areas. I met those original requirements, so other than that, what's it matter how much total time I have?

There was a time in our training department, when some folks were having a tough time on their first attempt to upgrade. As far as I know, every jetBlue captain that posts here made it through the first time. That's by no means meant to impress you, just so you know before you get any more exercise jumping to conclusions.

All this means is; everybody who is current and qualified at a 121 airline has atleast met the minimum standard set by the FAA. The same standard, by and large, at every other 121 airline in this country. There is no way give extra points in this end of the business. Just a bunch of folks doing their job, day after day.

Respectfully,

JayDub

Edit: I just noticed when this posted that JeffG had posted as well. Sorry if there is repetitive statements.

 

[#1 Windmilling]

Hey All,
This thread has hit on a lot of great topics and I wanted to jump in with my 1/5th of a dime. First of all, I think it is wise for us at Jet Blue to remain humble. Yes, it is cool to be announcing new cities and taking on rivals in other cities, etc etc and I love the taste of the Bluelaid as much as anyone. However, the greatest challenge we face at Jet Blue, IMHO, as we grow, will be our ability to CONSISTENTLY deliver great customer service. Over and over, I hear from the pax that they love Jet Blue because of the high level of service that comes with the low fare. As pilots we can do our best with the limited time we actually spend with the pax, but it really comes down to the check in folks, the gate agents and the inflight crew. One of the goals the company set from its inception was to bring humanity back to air travel. Let’s be honest, by the time one gets down the Van Wyck, through check in, security and the boarding process, one hardly feels human. At JB, we are trying to make these steps less stressful and our inflight crew is making a HUGE difference. Can it last? Let’s hope so. As far as the finances, lease payments and costs, etc, I think it is fair to say that JB has some of the best people in the business managing these things. Let us also remember that a lot will change here within the next few weeks if (when) we go to war with Iraq. Spot fuel prices are already increasing dramatically and once we start dropping iron, they will only go higher. It pays to be humble…….


-#1W to “TRT set on the bar”

 

[FoxThree]

NYR<




Fox Three, I am guessing you are new here.

Yes, I am new here. I only recently learned about this board. I have just reached a milestone in my career. I have completed the service obligation I had incurred for the Acadamy and flight school and have been trying to learn as much as I could about airline and corporate flying so I could make an informed decision about what to do next.

I've made that decision. I like what I'm doing and though the pay isn't that good there are other rewards. So I quess in about 10 years I'll see you on the interview board when I'm trying to get on at your airline.

Until then, this board is a great source of aviation information and a good resource principally because of the kind of people you mentioned.