JetBlue to cancel traditional healthcare plans

[Smarta$$]

You should really bow out of this debate. Those involved in the medical field would overwhelmingly disagree with that statement.
You must have a different definition of "efficient" than the rest of the planet:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/09/27/How-Medicare-Wastes-Almost-50-Billion-a-Year.aspx#page1

So when private companies and providers commit fraud, that is medicares fault?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto.../04/23/gao-medicare-experiment-wastes-8b.html

This article is about a questionable program related to funding for Medicare-Advantage (a private health insurance market, not public medicare). The 8 billion dollar figure is a drop in the bucket (still unacceptable) compared to the wasted money in the private insurance market. How much does the payroll, lawyer salaries, lobbyist salaries, glass and marble towers, executive compensation, plan designers, plan administrators etc.... for all of the hundreds of private health insurance companies strip out of the health care system that pay for NO doctors visits or pharmacy bills?

The cost FACTS of our system are NOT on your side, no matter how many articles about waste you can dig up. Our system is CLEARLY the most expensive in the world. Period. By far.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/238654.php

This article does not tell you how private insurance is also burdened by many of the same regulations. It tells us that we can do better with Medicare and medicade... DUH. Again, you can post all the articles you want showing the problems with Medicare, but you can't post ANY that show the U.S. system is cheaper IN U.S. dollars, or as a percentage of GDP than other nations, despite having covered a smaller proportion of our society and despite the fact that we have the most privatized system in the industrialized world.

Simply put, you can't show that our PRIVATE (more than any other advanced nation) provides better value than the more public systems in other countries. You do not have the facts on your side. And pointing to inefficiencies and fraud in the public system while ignoring the inefficiencies and waste in the private system is a dis-service to our country and dumbs down the debate.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/03/10...-medicare-and-medicaid-still-await-solutions/

Again, selective data and attacks ignoring the waste, fraud and inefficiencies in your "favored" private system. I knew a quote from the heritage foundation was coming at some point....

Now show me reasonable data that shows our private healthcare system is a better value than other public systems. Most international surveys and research papers level the differences in currencies to make easy and accurate cost comparisons. I will wait patiently.


Spend more time reading about than arguing topics you're not familiar with.

See response within your quote.

 

[Rick James]

I said IF. IF. IF we adopted theirs means of financing healthcare. IF.

That's true, on second glance you did say "IF".

Typical, you use standard rhetoric instead of comparable data regarding health care spending and outcomes by nation.

I'm not really sure what "standard rhetoric" is, but would you care to cite an example of something the government does better than the free market system? Let's not forget that Obamacare is a result of government regulations driving the costs of healthcare up (yes, we now have more government regulations to fix a problem that government regulations caused).

 

[Smarta$$]

I don't know how much more I will post on this thread. At this point ideology will over rule any data, or comparitive facts and there is already sufficient information here (unless you ignored it) to show that our system is NOT the best SYSTEM in the world. There are areas where we excel, and some good treatment data points, but our advanced technologies and drugs have been exported and are available anywhere. Any perceived tech superiority is eroding everyday. But we are still left with outrageous costs and barriers to entry with little or nothing to show for it.

Either way, your "favored" system is collapsing. The trajectory of costs and uninsured will continue to a breaking point. When it collapses, republicans will blame government, but Americans will look at the rest of the world and wonder why their health plans didn't collapse and wonder how they are still so popular with their citizens despite being government health systems....

The overall totality of facts is NOT on your side.

 

[Smarta$$]

That's true, on second glance you did say "IF".


I'm not really sure what "standard rhetoric" is, but would you care to cite an example of something the government does better than the free market system? Let's not forget that Obamacare is a result of government regulations driving the costs of healthcare up (yes, we now have more government regulations to fix a problem that government regulations caused).

Health systems, especially large and overly complex systems like ours, have a lot of moving parts and countless influential factors. A significant factor in our high costs are related to our re-importation laws and laws preventing Medicare from negotiating volume discounts for drugs. The re-importation laws raise the costs of ALL insurance, public and private.

But to your point, the example is how our system compares in terms of cost and benefits to the GOVERNMENT systems in other countries. It is more than clear that we are not getting good value. You blame government, because that is your belief system, your religion so to speak. If it were true that government systems cost more, we would have one of the best health systems in the world when considering costs and TOTAL VALUE. But that is not what we see.

Once you drop your per-conceived notions about Medicare, you would clearly see that it is by far the best and cheapest way to provide the SAME coverage vs. privatizing it. Even the waste and fraud that your articles quoted, which are a crime and the providers/doctors that defraud us (happens in private insurance as well) should be prosecuted, still amount to a small fraction of total Medicare spending. Annual Medicare spending is in the hundreds of billions.

To provide the same coverage as Medicare in a private system, you have all the same benefit costs (same coverage means same payments to doctors and pharmacies(actually more, because private plans pay doctors more)), but have to cover all the immense overhead required to run each individual insurance company individually. Lots and lots of duplication.

Insurance, whether public non-profit or private for-profit work the same basic way.

1. take in premiums (or taxes)

2. pay for claims (good) and pay overhead (bad)

Both systems are susceptible to fraudulent claims by doctors and pharmacies. But the private system has the additional burden of duplicate overhead at each company: executive compensation, glass and marble towers, plan administrators, sales people, army of lawyers, army or lobbyists, army of accountants etc... None of the overhead dollars go to patients needs or care.

Private companies simply have much more duplicate, unrelated and unnecessary overhead.

Medicare benefits from economies of scale already by covering tens of millions under one system.

 

[2000Easyguy]

We're fat because of "sugar lobbies"? Give me a break. How about saying no to that third doughnut, or practicing some parenting skills and making your kids drink milk or water instead of a 16 oz. Mountain Dew. Nobody's forcing these things into our mouths. We are not victims.

Really? Reread wave flyer's post again, then think about pink slime and HFCS.
It's not the three doughnuts and Mountian Dew that's increasing the waistline in the USA! CORN!!!
It's pathetic that a third world country's coke contains "real" sugar, while coke in ATL has the toxic HFCS!

I do agree eating habits in the US are in an awful state! It's spreading over here in Europe at an alarming rate, sad to say.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

You guys need to give up. It's embarrassing watching Smarta$$ wipe the floor with you.

 

[Smarta$$]

Really? Reread wave flyer's post again, then think about pink slime and HFCS.
It's not the three doughnuts and Mountian Dew that's increasing the waistline in the USA! CORN!!!
It's pathetic that a third world country's coke contains "real" sugar, while coke in ATL has the toxic HFCS!

I do agree eating habits in the US are in an awful state! It's spreading over here in Europe at an alarming rate, sad to say.

I agree about HFCS. And other ingredients and processes that are allowed in the U.S., that are rightfully banned in other nations.

We really are sold to big business here.... And we are paying with our health and our treasure.

 

[relief tube]

looks like 1193 servings of kool-aid will hopefully be drying up soon.

Time to fight and be the last major player with embarrassingly cheap mgmt.

What does virgin or allegiant have- are health bennies better there?

 

[tzskipper]

looks like 1193 servings of kool-aid will hopefully be drying up soon.

Time to fight and be the last major player with embarrassingly cheap mgmt.

What does virgin or allegiant have- are health bennies better there?

A friend at va pays about 340/month out of pocket for a family of 4. This is for Blue Cross PPO with a $20 copay/500 deductible (max of three deductibles per family per year). Max out of pocket is $1500.00 per person per year.

S

 

[LearLove]

so does jb management get to keep their heat care?

 

[linepilot]

What about the here and now?

What about jetblue compared to every other airline including regionals?

If you're telling me that we just have to accept some NEW paradigm in our bluethy non-union world where all I get is a basic safety net for my family then I'll take socialized medicine.

Because I work with a bunch of spineless slugs and I can't AFFORD all the fancy medical treatment that people with good coverage enjoy.

 

[N311HK]

Really? Reread wave flyer's post again, then think about pink slime and HFCS.
It's not the three doughnuts and Mountian Dew that's increasing the waistline in the USA! CORN!!!
It's pathetic that a third world country's coke contains "real" sugar, while coke in ATL has the toxic HFCS!

I do agree eating habits in the US are in an awful state! It's spreading over here in Europe at an alarming rate, sad to say.

It's not HFCS, it corn sugar now. And remember, you're body cant tell the the difference between sugar & corn sugar. Capitalism: You can make money off of someone's misery

 

[scoreboardII]

So now we get to the true conservative argument. The facts about quality of care and cost of care have never been on the side of Republicans. Only carefully chosen and sanitized "facts", anecdotes and "scarefacts" can help you win public opinion.

So if quality of care and cost effectiveness clearly show that our system is FAR from best, then why cling to a failure? .

The facts don't support your argument. There are no studies which state our system is far from best. What we have is not failure, we have a system which does cost money, but it is a system which works, and pays for itself. Every country that study mentions rations care, period, end of story. If you go to the hospital after the funding for the year has been utilized, you get to wait till next years funds. Could ours be improved? Sure, lets drop health care for illegal drug abusers, illegal aliens, etc. Lets go after the Medicare cheats. I'm all for that.

Because of strict ideology. You would literally rather pay 50% more for the same service, than EVER participate in a system that helps everyone

Not because of ideology, but because of reality. I live in the real world which pays the bills on time.

Ideology? OK, how about the grasshopper and ant parable.

You want me to pay for the bum who decided he wanted to live like a troll under the interstate bridge. He made his choice, he is in charge of his destiny, he gets to reap the reward of that choice. Or have you forgotten this is America, where you are as much rewarded for your efforts, as punished for your indolence.

Show us in the constitution where it says you are guaranteed food, housing, health care? Next you'll be arguing for free smart phones for the shopping cart lady.

 

[scoreboardII]

Private companies simply have much more duplicate, unrelated and unnecessary overhead.

Medicare benefits from economies of scale already by covering tens of millions under one system.

You fail to understand basic free market systems.

How well does the government run AMTRAC?

Are the National Park system hotels run best by the government or by the contracted for private companies?

Which ATC system is more modern and efficient, the US or the UK?

These are not republican talking points, these are libertarian talking points.

 

[GLEXPilot]

What a waste of time reading all of this. Time to go for a drive!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Funny. None of you have spent any time in a European hospital. Family member spent six days in an Italian one.

No air conditioning (middle of summer), no toilet paper (supplied by family), no food ( supplied by family), MRI not available (did without), no specialist available to read MRI even if it was done (city of 150,000).

Their lifestyle contributes to their longevity. NOT quality of their healthcare. Our is the best, point blank period.

Heck, even my regional airline provides a PPO option. No chance in heck I'll leave for a place like JetBlue. What are they thinking? Lowering the bar, what else.

 

[paid4training]

No, you're not informed. At best, you're Heritage Foundation, Fox News informed... I don't have the time or the desire to prove someone like you wrong.

But I didn't say you couldn't get great care if you are lucky enough to afford it or have a nice union, executive or government job. I said our SYSTEM was terrible. That includes our laws, structure, access and the way we finance our system. Our outcomes and access to care are NOT justified by the costs. We are not getting good value for our money. We are being ripped off systematically.

You can be manipulated into a false sense of American superiority and puff your chest out at fluff pieces of "journalism" about how America has the best health care in the world by politicians and industry (often they are the same anyway). I will not. I prefer to approach things with an open mind, and not participate in "dumb patriotism" when it isn't deserved.

Open mind=liberal socialist b.s

Our system continues to support non citizens while neglecting the rest of us. But hey we have to take of everybody....