JetBlue to cancel traditional healthcare plans

[Smarta$$]

TANSTAAFL.

It ain't free, somebody pays for it. Guess who, "somebody else" until "they" leave, then the government goes bankrupt, like Greece.

Seriously? You're arguing that other countries go bankrupt because they spend LESS than us on healthcare? Really? They spend LESS than we do, but yet that LOWER spending on healthcare is the reason for going bankrupt?

So if we adopted their methods of financing healthcare, that have proven to cost less money (in every country worldwide), you're saying that lower expenditure would cause us to go bankrupt?

 

[Smarta$$]

Care to explain why most caring and thinking adult Americans would then buy air evac insurance on overseas trips to locations with "great health care"? I've been to all three, they have fine care, as good as ours? Sure, if you like socialism, because they have great care that someone else pays for. Better than ours? Hardly.

So now we get to the true conservative argument. The facts about quality of care and cost of care have never been on the side of Republicans. Only carefully chosen and sanitized "facts", anecdotes and "scarefacts" can help you win public opinion.

So if quality of care and cost effectiveness clearly show that our system is FAR from best, then why cling to a failure? Because of strict ideology. You would literally rather pay 50% more for the same service, than EVER participate in a system that helps everyone.

 

[BoilerUP]

You're typing an AWFUL lot of words discussing the 'financing of our healthcare system' when "single payer system" would suffice...

 

[Smarta$$]

You're typing an AWFUL lot of words discussing the 'financing of our healthcare system' when "single payer system" would suffice...

Ok, I have typed a lot of words. I would also say that single payer doesn't have to be the only option. Many countries use a mixture or public and private insurance (with strict regulation of what it covers and what they can charge, they also have to be non-profit), somewhat resembling obamacare, but much better. But, Medicare for everyone would be the most efficient, cost effective and simplest way to finance healthcare.

And of course, virtually every country allows you to purchase extra private supplemental "Cadillac" insurance coverage if you choose.

 

[Rick James]

Seriously? You're arguing that other countries go bankrupt because they spend LESS than us on healthcare? Really? They spend LESS than we do, but yet that LOWER spending on healthcare is the reason for going bankrupt?

So if we adopted their methods of financing healthcare, that have proven to cost less money (in every country worldwide), you're saying that lower expenditure would cause us to go bankrupt?

I wasnt aware that we "adopted their means of financing healthcare". Could you provide evidence of how our healthcare costs are going to be lower? You may have to look past the recent GAO findings.

I can't wait for this ultra efficient new health care system. After all, we all know that when the government plays a role in free enterprise the result is always success. Just look at how well the USPS does vs. Fedex and UPS.

 

[Lear70]

Your study fails to normalize why our numbers are so high so it is flawed at it's core research which is biased toward wanting governmental control of healthcare.

True statement.

Why is our mortality worse than other countries? We are fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave. Why is infant mortality is so high? We have single "MOMs" addicted to every type of drug known to man, you expect the fetus to survive that? If you remove those numbers, we are the fittest group of humans on the planet.

2nd part, not so much, first part, absolutely 100% true. Have any of you actually studied what the effect of more than 40 pounds of additional weight on your body does to you? We're talking cutting 20% off your life expectancy, making your body unable to combat basic disease, the list goes on and on.

It takes no supreme governmental power to make a fit and healthy nation, it takes PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Correct, and why it's only going to get worse. Americans, by and large, are fat, lazy, always seeking instant gratification and the media doesn't help that. It's been getting worse for two generations, and shows no signs of slowing...


I'm not an Obama fan by ANY stretch of the imagination, my fiance tells me daily of the additions of Obamacare policies that waste Millions of dollas PER MONTH in unnecessary tests that she has to run, because the law says so and the hospitals are implementing them early in anticipation that they will stay and not wanting to have to change a hundred things at the last second. And that's just HER specialty... other docs complain of the same things, how costs are going up, not down.

However, in defense of the Obamacare plan, there's some good things in there as well. The initiative to educate America on their bad eating habits is one, putting calorie, fat, and sodium content on every menu item in America is another good one, and there's some good legislation in there for cost structure as well... However, it's unconstitutional in the way it was drafted, hence the Justice's debate: do they gut it and keep the "good stuff" or do they just reject it completely and HOPE that the positive changes make it back into new legislation down the road... Hard decisions.

There's no argument that the PAID access to BASIC healthcare is better in other countries than the U.S. We here in the U.S., unfortunately, have to finance the uninsured who come through the door in critical condition and never pay; other countries don't have to do that, it's set up so that everyone is covered for even primary care. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, but the mechanism that Obama chose and the accompanying crap that comes with it is unacceptable.

You also can't argue that Pharma access in other countries is better, in many cases, simply because, as has been mentioned, of cost. My ex-girlfriend got migraines... badly... and had no insurance, and the cost of her Tylenol with Codeine was hundreds of dollars. In Canada (and much of Mexico and the Caribbean) that same medicine can be had over the counter, Extra Strength Parmadol, for about $10 bucks. Pharma is a bigger problem in many cases than people realize, but you will never see legislation aimed their way in this country... too much money in the lobbying system (which is flawed, but that's another argument for another day).

However, the assertion that medical care here is the best in the world from a CARE standpoint is 100% correct. I've had family and friends become ill overseas and you do NOT want to have a problem there. Broken bones have to be re-broken and re-set after being "repaired" in Europe in ways reminiscent of the 1800's. Sometimes you can't even GET care in Europe; one of our regular posters on this board needed a knee replacement at 30, and after half a year of applying for it in England, was REJECTED because "he was too old for it to benefit society" for the repair. Are you F******* KIDDING ME?? At 30???? Here, it gets fixed.

People travel from all over the world to visit OUR Cardio-Vascular, Neurological, and Cancer centers because, quite frankly, they're BETTER than anywhere else in the world. Period. End of story.

Do we need basic healthcare for the country? Undoubtedly. Is Obamacare the way to do it? No. The kind of health-care reform we need will never pass because of special interest lobbying. Period.

Back to the jetBlue issue, it's a shame the TWA ruling came out when it did, or you guys would be negotiating a CBA right now and locking in healthcare issues, like every OTHER carrier out there, including the regionals. I wouldn't count on Obamacare staying in place in a way that protects you... These days, I put healthcare right up there with Scope issues on importance in a CBA. Won't help if you get a 10% pay raise if your health care costs increase from $150 a month to $1,000 a month for your family of 4...

 

[Lear70]

Most people travelling overseas do NOT purchase air evac insurance. It's probably 1% or less.

Those that do, do so because most of those places with great free health care for their citizens do NOT provide great free health care to travelers from the US. They'll bill you for it and it ain't cheap.

I do.

Any vacation anywhere outside of the industrialized nations. If you don't, you probably haven't seen what really happens in a hospital in Mexico or much of the Caribbean. After a few years of medevac work, you would too.

 

[Rick James]

But, Medicare for everyone would be the most efficient, cost effective and simplest way to finance healthcare.

You should really bow out of this debate. Those involved in the medical field would overwhelmingly disagree with that statement.
You must have a different definition of "efficient" than the rest of the planet:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Artic...re-Wastes-Almost-50-Billion-a-Year.aspx#page1

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto.../04/23/gao-medicare-experiment-wastes-8b.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/238654.php

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/03/10...-medicare-and-medicaid-still-await-solutions/

Spend more time reading about than arguing topics you're not familiar with.

 

[Smarta$$]

I wasnt aware that we "adopted their means of financing healthcare". Could you provide evidence of how our healthcare costs are going to be lower? You may have to look past the recent GAO findings.

I can't wait for this ultra efficient new health care system. After all, we all know that when the government plays a role in free enterprise the result is always success. Just look at how well the USPS does vs. Fedex and UPS.

I said IF. IF. IF we adopted theirs means of financing healthcare. IF.

Typical, you use standard rhetoric instead of comparable data regarding health care spending and outcomes by nation.

 

[Smarta$$]

True statement.


2nd part, not so much, first part, absolutely 100% true. Have any of you actually studied what the effect of more than 40 pounds of additional weight on your body does to you? We're talking cutting 20% off your life expectancy, making your body unable to combat basic disease, the list goes on and on.


Correct, and why it's only going to get worse. Americans, by and large, are fat, lazy, always seeking instant gratification and the media doesn't help that. It's been getting worse for two generations, and shows no signs of slowing...


I'm not an Obama fan by ANY stretch of the imagination, my fiance tells me daily of the additions of Obamacare policies that waste Millions of dollas PER MONTH in unnecessary tests that she has to run, because the law says so and the hospitals are implementing them early in anticipation that they will stay and not wanting to have to change a hundred things at the last second. And that's just HER specialty... other docs complain of the same things, how costs are going up, not down.

However, in defense of the Obamacare plan, there's some good things in there as well. The initiative to educate America on their bad eating habits is one, putting calorie, fat, and sodium content on every menu item in America is another good one, and there's some good legislation in there for cost structure as well... However, it's unconstitutional in the way it was drafted, hence the Justice's debate: do they gut it and keep the "good stuff" or do they just reject it completely and HOPE that the positive changes make it back into new legislation down the road... Hard decisions.

There's no argument that the PAID access to BASIC healthcare is better in other countries than the U.S. We here in the U.S., unfortunately, have to finance the uninsured who come through the door in critical condition and never pay; other countries don't have to do that, it's set up so that everyone is covered for even primary care. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, but the mechanism that Obama chose and the accompanying crap that comes with it is unacceptable.

You also can't argue that Pharma access in other countries is better, in many cases, simply because, as has been mentioned, of cost. My ex-girlfriend got migraines... badly... and had no insurance, and the cost of her Tylenol with Codeine was hundreds of dollars. In Canada (and much of Mexico and the Caribbean) that same medicine can be had over the counter, Extra Strength Parmadol, for about $10 bucks. Pharma is a bigger problem in many cases than people realize, but you will never see legislation aimed their way in this country... too much money in the lobbying system (which is flawed, but that's another argument for another day).

However, the assertion that medical care here is the best in the world from a CARE standpoint is 100% correct. I've had family and friends become ill overseas and you do NOT want to have a problem there. Broken bones have to be re-broken and re-set after being "repaired" in Europe in ways reminiscent of the 1800's. Sometimes you can't even GET care in Europe; one of our regular posters on this board needed a knee replacement at 30, and after half a year of applying for it in England, was REJECTED because "he was too old for it to benefit society" for the repair. Are you F******* KIDDING ME?? At 30???? Here, it gets fixed.

People travel from all over the world to visit OUR Cardio-Vascular, Neurological, and Cancer centers because, quite frankly, they're BETTER than anywhere else in the world. Period. End of story.

Do we need basic healthcare for the country? Undoubtedly. Is Obamacare the way to do it? No. The kind of health-care reform we need will never pass because of special interest lobbying. Period.

Back to the jetBlue issue, it's a shame the TWA ruling came out when it did, or you guys would be negotiating a CBA right now and locking in healthcare issues, like every OTHER carrier out there, including the regionals. I wouldn't count on Obamacare staying in place in a way that protects you... These days, I put healthcare right up there with Scope issues on importance in a CBA. Won't help if you get a 10% pay raise if your health care costs increase from $150 a month to $1,000 a month for your family of 4...

I don't have a problem with most of your assertions. However, Obama didn't "choose" an approach. It was written by congress. While I agree with you that it should have been much different and better, the ways to make it better were impossible due to REAL ideological opposition (not the fake opposition and mis-characterizations from the right).

The right thing to do was not possible.