JetBlue to cancel traditional healthcare plans

[scoreboardII]

Wake up and smell the coffee. The US Healthcare system is sub par. According to the New England Journal of Medicine, not only did we lag the rest of the industrial world, we're falling further behind.

[FONT=&quot]Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System[/FONT]
Christopher J.L. Murray, M.D., D.Phil., and Julio Frenk, M.D., Ph.D., M.P.H.
N Engl J Med 2010; 362:98-99January 14, 2010

“It is hard to ignore that in 2006, the United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy.3 These facts have fueled a question now being discussed in academic circles, as well as by government and the public: Why do we spend so much to get so little?
Comparisons also reveal that the United States is falling farther behind each year.”

Your study fails to normalize why our numbers are so high so it is flawed at it's core research which is biased toward wanting governmental control of healthcare.

Why is our mortality worse than other countries? We are fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave. Why is infant mortality is so high? We have single "MOMs" addicted to every type of drug known to man, you expect the fetus to survive that? If you remove those numbers, we are the fittest group of humans on the planet.

It takes no supreme governmental power to make a fit and healthy nation, it takes PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Quoting from the Journal and very Dr's who supported the debacle known as Obamacare won't impress anyone that the US is worst, still waiting for proof, unbiased proof.

Sorry, I have not seen Fox in weeks, but nice liberal attempt at trying to paint me as an unthinking republican.

 

[Smarta$$]

Your study fails to normalize why our numbers are so high so it is flawed at it's core research which is biased toward wanting governmental control of healthcare.

Why is our mortality worse than other countries? We are fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave. Why is infant mortality is so high? We have single "MOMs" addicted to every type of drug known to man, you expect the fetus to survive that? If you remove those numbers, we are the fittest group of humans on the planet.

It takes no supreme governmental power to make a fit and healthy nation, it takes PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Quoting from the Journal and very Dr's who supported the debacle known as Obamacare won't impress anyone that the US is worst, still waiting for proof, unbiased proof.

Sorry, I have not seen Fox in weeks, but nice liberal attempt at trying to paint me as an unthinking republican.

Actually, almost every international survey comes to the same conclussions. Even if the data were somewhat skewed, which I don't believe, there would be no reasonable way to take us from some supposed clear number 1 (which we better be to even have a chance of justifying our outrageous expenditures) to middle or bottom of the pack.

I know this may rock all of the foundations upon which you base your existence, but we are NOT number one. We are by far the number one spender though......

As far as you being an unthinking republican, what other conclussion should I come to when you refuse to believe data, surveys and research that almost universally refutes the idea that we get good value for our money, or that our healthcare system is good enough to justify the money we waste on it... The only data or research that you could point too that supports your opinion would come from The Heritage Foundation or Karl Rove's superpac. And you want to say everyone else's research is biased? What a joke. Sorry, the whole world isn't against your genious idea's....

 

[Smarta$$]

Your study fails to normalize why our numbers are so high so it is flawed at it's core research which is biased toward wanting governmental control of healthcare.

Why is our mortality worse than other countries? We are fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave. Why is infant mortality is so high? We have single "MOMs" addicted to every type of drug known to man, you expect the fetus to survive that? If you remove those numbers, we are the fittest group of humans on the planet.

It takes no supreme governmental power to make a fit and healthy nation, it takes PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Quoting from the Journal and very Dr's who supported the debacle known as Obamacare won't impress anyone that the US is worst, still waiting for proof, unbiased proof.

Sorry, I have not seen Fox in weeks, but nice liberal attempt at trying to paint me as an unthinking republican.

And as far as American's being fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave... I submit that it is NO coincidence that our government allows many more food additives, growth hormones, and food processing than other advanced nations under the argument of "less regulation".

As for mothers on drugs, our obese population, and our world's highest rates of violent crime (among advanced nations), there is SOMETHING as a society that causes these ill's. You can say it all involves individual choices, but at some point, an intelligent person would ask why OUR "individuals" make these choices at far greater frequency than citizens of other countries. And it can't be the old welfare state or entitlement argument, because other countries have MORE entitlements than we do.

These are problems caused by OUR culture and OUR laws, OUR regulations and OUR politics. We have mediocre healthcare relative to its costs, we have a failing education system, we have highest in the world violent crime rates, more school shootings, more drugs, more poverty, more homelessness, more gang activity, more incarcerations.... Off the top of my head.

These are poor individual decisions made at significantly greater proportions by OUR population. Which means that OUR society and OUR politics/ideology and OUR institutions are the root cause.

And if you still can't get it through your thick skull, using your words, why do citizens of other nations that are not so "fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave", have more " PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY"? (The underlined being quotes of yours.)

 

[Ace McCoy]

Surprised no one posted this yet.


http://blogs-images.forbes.com/toddhixon/files/2012/02/MaryMeeker-graph-e1329513274401.png

 

[Smarta$$]

Surprised no one posted this yet.


http://blogs-images.forbes.com/toddhixon/files/2012/02/MaryMeeker-graph-e1329513274401.png

We're right in the ball park. Best in the world!!!! Got to go, Sean Hannity's come'n on! Gonna have that "Great Great Great American Panel" tonight!!!!

 

[scoreboardII]

Spending differences may be an acceptable argument if we're simply comparing ourselves to third world countries. The same goes for the accuracy of counting, but when you compare us to well developed, industrial countries, we fair poorly. Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand and the United Kingdom are quite capable of counting and record keeping, they also all out rank the US.

U.S. Last in Health Care Among 7 Industrialized Countries

LiveScience Staff
Date: 24 June 2010 Time: 05:26 AM ET

Although its citizens pay more for health care, the United States ranks last on several measures of health system performance compared with six other industrialized nations, according to a new report.

Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand and the United Kingdom all beat out the United States when it came to health care quality, efficiency, access, equity and the ability for citizens to lead long, healthy lives, says the report, from the Commonwealth Fund..

While there is room for improvement in every country, the United States stands out for not getting good value for its health care dollars, ranking last despite spending $7,290 per capita on health care in 2007 compared with the $3,837 spent per capita in the Netherlands, which ranked first overall.

Care to explain why most caring and thinking adult Americans would then buy air evac insurance on overseas trips to locations with "great health care"? I've been to all three, they have fine care, as good as ours? Sure, if you like socialism, because they have great care that someone else pays for. Better than ours? Hardly.

 

[ackattacker]

Care to explain why most caring and thinking adult Americans would then buy air evac insurance on overseas trips to locations with "great health care"?

Most people travelling overseas do NOT purchase air evac insurance. It's probably 1% or less.

Those that do, do so because most of those places with great free health care for their citizens do NOT provide great free health care to travelers from the US. They'll bill you for it and it ain't cheap.

 

[scoreboardII]

TANSTAAFL.

It ain't free, somebody pays for it. Guess who, "somebody else" until "they" leave, then the government goes bankrupt, like Greece.

 

[B6Busdriver]

TANSTAAFL.

It ain't free, somebody pays for it. Guess who, "somebody else" until "they" leave, then the government goes bankrupt, like Greece.

And the good ole US of A ain't too far behind.

 

[jonjuan]

Most people travelling overseas do NOT purchase air evac insurance. It's probably 1% or less.

Those that do, do so because most of those places with great free health care for their citizens do NOT provide great free health care to travelers from the US. They'll bill you for it and it ain't cheap.

Ignore scoreboard. He makes up stats as he posts.

 

[Smarta$$]

TANSTAAFL.

It ain't free, somebody pays for it. Guess who, "somebody else" until "they" leave, then the government goes bankrupt, like Greece.

Seriously? You're arguing that other countries go bankrupt because they spend LESS than us on healthcare? Really? They spend LESS than we do, but yet that LOWER spending on healthcare is the reason for going bankrupt?

So if we adopted their methods of financing healthcare, that have proven to cost less money (in every country worldwide), you're saying that lower expenditure would cause us to go bankrupt?

 

[Smarta$$]

Care to explain why most caring and thinking adult Americans would then buy air evac insurance on overseas trips to locations with "great health care"? I've been to all three, they have fine care, as good as ours? Sure, if you like socialism, because they have great care that someone else pays for. Better than ours? Hardly.

So now we get to the true conservative argument. The facts about quality of care and cost of care have never been on the side of Republicans. Only carefully chosen and sanitized "facts", anecdotes and "scarefacts" can help you win public opinion.

So if quality of care and cost effectiveness clearly show that our system is FAR from best, then why cling to a failure? Because of strict ideology. You would literally rather pay 50% more for the same service, than EVER participate in a system that helps everyone.

 

[BoilerUP]

You're typing an AWFUL lot of words discussing the 'financing of our healthcare system' when "single payer system" would suffice...

 

[Smarta$$]

You're typing an AWFUL lot of words discussing the 'financing of our healthcare system' when "single payer system" would suffice...

Ok, I have typed a lot of words. I would also say that single payer doesn't have to be the only option. Many countries use a mixture or public and private insurance (with strict regulation of what it covers and what they can charge, they also have to be non-profit), somewhat resembling obamacare, but much better. But, Medicare for everyone would be the most efficient, cost effective and simplest way to finance healthcare.

And of course, virtually every country allows you to purchase extra private supplemental "Cadillac" insurance coverage if you choose.

 

[Rick James]

Seriously? You're arguing that other countries go bankrupt because they spend LESS than us on healthcare? Really? They spend LESS than we do, but yet that LOWER spending on healthcare is the reason for going bankrupt?

So if we adopted their methods of financing healthcare, that have proven to cost less money (in every country worldwide), you're saying that lower expenditure would cause us to go bankrupt?

I wasnt aware that we "adopted their means of financing healthcare". Could you provide evidence of how our healthcare costs are going to be lower? You may have to look past the recent GAO findings.

I can't wait for this ultra efficient new health care system. After all, we all know that when the government plays a role in free enterprise the result is always success. Just look at how well the USPS does vs. Fedex and UPS.

 

[Lear70]

Your study fails to normalize why our numbers are so high so it is flawed at it's core research which is biased toward wanting governmental control of healthcare.

True statement.

Why is our mortality worse than other countries? We are fat, lazy, overeating, and under-exercising our way to the grave. Why is infant mortality is so high? We have single "MOMs" addicted to every type of drug known to man, you expect the fetus to survive that? If you remove those numbers, we are the fittest group of humans on the planet.

2nd part, not so much, first part, absolutely 100% true. Have any of you actually studied what the effect of more than 40 pounds of additional weight on your body does to you? We're talking cutting 20% off your life expectancy, making your body unable to combat basic disease, the list goes on and on.

It takes no supreme governmental power to make a fit and healthy nation, it takes PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Correct, and why it's only going to get worse. Americans, by and large, are fat, lazy, always seeking instant gratification and the media doesn't help that. It's been getting worse for two generations, and shows no signs of slowing...


I'm not an Obama fan by ANY stretch of the imagination, my fiance tells me daily of the additions of Obamacare policies that waste Millions of dollas PER MONTH in unnecessary tests that she has to run, because the law says so and the hospitals are implementing them early in anticipation that they will stay and not wanting to have to change a hundred things at the last second. And that's just HER specialty... other docs complain of the same things, how costs are going up, not down.

However, in defense of the Obamacare plan, there's some good things in there as well. The initiative to educate America on their bad eating habits is one, putting calorie, fat, and sodium content on every menu item in America is another good one, and there's some good legislation in there for cost structure as well... However, it's unconstitutional in the way it was drafted, hence the Justice's debate: do they gut it and keep the "good stuff" or do they just reject it completely and HOPE that the positive changes make it back into new legislation down the road... Hard decisions.

There's no argument that the PAID access to BASIC healthcare is better in other countries than the U.S. We here in the U.S., unfortunately, have to finance the uninsured who come through the door in critical condition and never pay; other countries don't have to do that, it's set up so that everyone is covered for even primary care. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, but the mechanism that Obama chose and the accompanying crap that comes with it is unacceptable.

You also can't argue that Pharma access in other countries is better, in many cases, simply because, as has been mentioned, of cost. My ex-girlfriend got migraines... badly... and had no insurance, and the cost of her Tylenol with Codeine was hundreds of dollars. In Canada (and much of Mexico and the Caribbean) that same medicine can be had over the counter, Extra Strength Parmadol, for about $10 bucks. Pharma is a bigger problem in many cases than people realize, but you will never see legislation aimed their way in this country... too much money in the lobbying system (which is flawed, but that's another argument for another day).

However, the assertion that medical care here is the best in the world from a CARE standpoint is 100% correct. I've had family and friends become ill overseas and you do NOT want to have a problem there. Broken bones have to be re-broken and re-set after being "repaired" in Europe in ways reminiscent of the 1800's. Sometimes you can't even GET care in Europe; one of our regular posters on this board needed a knee replacement at 30, and after half a year of applying for it in England, was REJECTED because "he was too old for it to benefit society" for the repair. Are you F******* KIDDING ME?? At 30???? Here, it gets fixed.

People travel from all over the world to visit OUR Cardio-Vascular, Neurological, and Cancer centers because, quite frankly, they're BETTER than anywhere else in the world. Period. End of story.

Do we need basic healthcare for the country? Undoubtedly. Is Obamacare the way to do it? No. The kind of health-care reform we need will never pass because of special interest lobbying. Period.

Back to the jetBlue issue, it's a shame the TWA ruling came out when it did, or you guys would be negotiating a CBA right now and locking in healthcare issues, like every OTHER carrier out there, including the regionals. I wouldn't count on Obamacare staying in place in a way that protects you... These days, I put healthcare right up there with Scope issues on importance in a CBA. Won't help if you get a 10% pay raise if your health care costs increase from $150 a month to $1,000 a month for your family of 4...

 

[Lear70]

Most people travelling overseas do NOT purchase air evac insurance. It's probably 1% or less.

Those that do, do so because most of those places with great free health care for their citizens do NOT provide great free health care to travelers from the US. They'll bill you for it and it ain't cheap.

I do.

Any vacation anywhere outside of the industrialized nations. If you don't, you probably haven't seen what really happens in a hospital in Mexico or much of the Caribbean. After a few years of medevac work, you would too.

 

[Rick James]

But, Medicare for everyone would be the most efficient, cost effective and simplest way to finance healthcare.

You should really bow out of this debate. Those involved in the medical field would overwhelmingly disagree with that statement.
You must have a different definition of "efficient" than the rest of the planet:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Artic...re-Wastes-Almost-50-Billion-a-Year.aspx#page1

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto.../04/23/gao-medicare-experiment-wastes-8b.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/238654.php

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/03/10...-medicare-and-medicaid-still-await-solutions/

Spend more time reading about than arguing topics you're not familiar with.

 

[Smarta$$]

I wasnt aware that we "adopted their means of financing healthcare". Could you provide evidence of how our healthcare costs are going to be lower? You may have to look past the recent GAO findings.

I can't wait for this ultra efficient new health care system. After all, we all know that when the government plays a role in free enterprise the result is always success. Just look at how well the USPS does vs. Fedex and UPS.

I said IF. IF. IF we adopted theirs means of financing healthcare. IF.

Typical, you use standard rhetoric instead of comparable data regarding health care spending and outcomes by nation.

 

[Smarta$$]

True statement.


2nd part, not so much, first part, absolutely 100% true. Have any of you actually studied what the effect of more than 40 pounds of additional weight on your body does to you? We're talking cutting 20% off your life expectancy, making your body unable to combat basic disease, the list goes on and on.


Correct, and why it's only going to get worse. Americans, by and large, are fat, lazy, always seeking instant gratification and the media doesn't help that. It's been getting worse for two generations, and shows no signs of slowing...


I'm not an Obama fan by ANY stretch of the imagination, my fiance tells me daily of the additions of Obamacare policies that waste Millions of dollas PER MONTH in unnecessary tests that she has to run, because the law says so and the hospitals are implementing them early in anticipation that they will stay and not wanting to have to change a hundred things at the last second. And that's just HER specialty... other docs complain of the same things, how costs are going up, not down.

However, in defense of the Obamacare plan, there's some good things in there as well. The initiative to educate America on their bad eating habits is one, putting calorie, fat, and sodium content on every menu item in America is another good one, and there's some good legislation in there for cost structure as well... However, it's unconstitutional in the way it was drafted, hence the Justice's debate: do they gut it and keep the "good stuff" or do they just reject it completely and HOPE that the positive changes make it back into new legislation down the road... Hard decisions.

There's no argument that the PAID access to BASIC healthcare is better in other countries than the U.S. We here in the U.S., unfortunately, have to finance the uninsured who come through the door in critical condition and never pay; other countries don't have to do that, it's set up so that everyone is covered for even primary care. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, but the mechanism that Obama chose and the accompanying crap that comes with it is unacceptable.

You also can't argue that Pharma access in other countries is better, in many cases, simply because, as has been mentioned, of cost. My ex-girlfriend got migraines... badly... and had no insurance, and the cost of her Tylenol with Codeine was hundreds of dollars. In Canada (and much of Mexico and the Caribbean) that same medicine can be had over the counter, Extra Strength Parmadol, for about $10 bucks. Pharma is a bigger problem in many cases than people realize, but you will never see legislation aimed their way in this country... too much money in the lobbying system (which is flawed, but that's another argument for another day).

However, the assertion that medical care here is the best in the world from a CARE standpoint is 100% correct. I've had family and friends become ill overseas and you do NOT want to have a problem there. Broken bones have to be re-broken and re-set after being "repaired" in Europe in ways reminiscent of the 1800's. Sometimes you can't even GET care in Europe; one of our regular posters on this board needed a knee replacement at 30, and after half a year of applying for it in England, was REJECTED because "he was too old for it to benefit society" for the repair. Are you F******* KIDDING ME?? At 30???? Here, it gets fixed.

People travel from all over the world to visit OUR Cardio-Vascular, Neurological, and Cancer centers because, quite frankly, they're BETTER than anywhere else in the world. Period. End of story.

Do we need basic healthcare for the country? Undoubtedly. Is Obamacare the way to do it? No. The kind of health-care reform we need will never pass because of special interest lobbying. Period.

Back to the jetBlue issue, it's a shame the TWA ruling came out when it did, or you guys would be negotiating a CBA right now and locking in healthcare issues, like every OTHER carrier out there, including the regionals. I wouldn't count on Obamacare staying in place in a way that protects you... These days, I put healthcare right up there with Scope issues on importance in a CBA. Won't help if you get a 10% pay raise if your health care costs increase from $150 a month to $1,000 a month for your family of 4...

I don't have a problem with most of your assertions. However, Obama didn't "choose" an approach. It was written by congress. While I agree with you that it should have been much different and better, the ways to make it better were impossible due to REAL ideological opposition (not the fake opposition and mis-characterizations from the right).

The right thing to do was not possible.