Flying Freddie
Bitchin' Blue
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Posts
- 345
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Skirt, I'd like you to clarify your statement. Are you now saying that ALPA and Unions are "bad" things? as to the fire, that's the attitude that results in million acre forest fires. when do you call the fire department? when the flames hit 50 feet?skirt said:Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Your suggestion is way too much of an over reaction for the current situation. Just because somebody lights a match doesn't mean you have to call out an entire fire department to put it out.
Skirt
AAflyer said:The JB guys are right about one thing. Those Mid Atlantic rates didn't help anyone!!! Why have we not commented on them?
Just Curious,
AA
I will bet you dollars to donuts, that if you were a McFly on the Wall over at the SWAPA website you would hear most of the guys/gals being told not to air their feeling about the 190 contract over at Flightinfo. I'll bet they have been told "it's an in house discussion," and to keep it that way.FLB717 said:Wow, I've never seen the B6 crew so ruffled! But before we compair B6 to SWA in the terms of a Union, recall if you will that SWA HAS a Union, a very good one I might add. So lets get some SWAPA guys in here to let us know the history of why SWAPA was formed at a company who is famous for loving it's employee's. Then we could compair the oranges to blue berries.
Another conspiracy theorist. I think if you go back to the beginning and read my posts, you'll see I have no loyalty or affiliation with any airline. Am I a mgt supporter?.......yes, but only if it's good mgt. I have no use for the crooks who raped the coffers of the various airlines they pretended to lead. If it was up to me, they and all the board members that created their contracts would spend the next 10 years in Fairbanks, Alaska tossing bags on an Alaska Air 737.AAflyer said:Non Union= Take what we give you or leave, regardless of what we could afford to pay!!
AA
P.S. Lowecur, you are not really an analyst, you are some management stooge trying to brainwash pilots. Unions...Evil....![]()
T-Bags said:Skirt, I'd like you to clarify your statement. Are you now saying that ALPA and Unions are "bad" things? as to the fire, that's the attitude that results in million acre forest fires. when do you call the fire department? when the flames hit 50 feet?
If you don't want ALPA, then don't get ALPA. If you don't want to pay 1.95% (a BARGAIN), then DON'T!! personally I thinks it's foolish not to get a good union with COMREHENSIVE protection. this isn't just about pay. Who are you gonna call when that inevitable bent wingtip happens? do you honestly trust Dave that much? What if it's a MX issue and that manager is more interested in protecting his Arse than yours? Who's going to bat for YOU? Do you have the potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire a defense team to protect you? Do you have access to some of the most respected accident/incident investigators in the world? but back to the 1.95%. you don't want to pay it? then fine, take up a fricken donut collection and ORGANIZE. you don't HAVE to have an adversarial relationship with the company. You are paid standards rates. you don't get merit pay increases. your value is as a GROUP, NOT individually. do you think this was a simple oversight? A faux pas? then wouldn't you think a JB pilots association (sorry, a JB "crewmembers club") would have BENEFITTED the company? Let's see, ole Dave could have gotten on the horn with Dizel (one of the few rational "been around the block" guys) and said "Hey D8, I'm thinking about new 190 pay rates, what would the "crewmember" think of these numbers?" then D8 could say "Well Dave, I think they'd see them as a slap in the face. They are already telling everybody just how much of a caring saint you are and these rates would prove otherwise, so I think they should be 20% higher and I think the effect would be a happier, more productive "crewmember" and would keep Jblu as the carrier of choice for those who plan to die before retirement age". Dave "well D8 I hadn't thought of that, after reviewing the numbers, will 15% work?" D8 "Sure Dave!! Hugs and kisses, you're still my pal!! friends to the end, hidy ho!!"
the simple question is why WOULDN'T they want you guys organized so that you COULD speak with ONE voice. "No Dave, over 8 hours of flying in a duty day is stupid!!" "No dave, min turn crew rest after an all nighter is dangerous..."
I just finished playing a softball game with my buddy who is a LUV pilot. I play 3rd he is SS, so we have plenty of time to chat once a week. He's been there since Midway went under and is what I would consider "active" in the company.lowecur said:I will bet you dollars to donuts, that if you were a McFly on the Wall over at the SWAPA website you would hear most of the guys/gals being told not to air their feeling about the 190 contract over at Flightinfo. I'll bet they have been told "it's an in house discussion," and to keep it that way.
You can also bet that they are discussing the ramifications the 190 contract will have at the next Section 6 discussions. My guess is they will be reluctant to take a 15 to 20% haircut, and suggest Herb & Co bring in the E-jet.
Remember........Collective Bargaining=Adversarial Relationship=Eventual Failure. Unions are for people who can't think for themselves.
.....G4G5 said:I just finished playing a softball game with my buddy who is a LUV pilot. I play 3rd he is SS, so we have plenty of time to chat once a week. Yeah, I used to play third on a fast pitch team. Haven't played in years, but I luved the game. He's been there since Midway went under and is what I would consider "active" in the company.
His point are very clear SWA has evaluated the 737 vs the 190 and come up with the cold hard truth. THEY DON'T NEED THE 190! Once again take a look at how may 737's they have on order. I have. LUV is taking the approach that if they want to go head to head with a legacy carrier they want to do it with an aircraft that is capable of carrying 150+ people. So the 737-8 will be their next order, or maybe the 7E7(getting out of the commonality genre).
Where are you getting this 15-20% pay reduction garbage from. Oh, just my opinion as an amateur analyst. I'm sure you saw the remark by Jamie Baker that the difference in seat cost between the 190 and the current WN contract for the 737 is 33%. Now of course due to the fact the 190 is not on property and won't be in descent numbers until the end of 2006, pressure to adjust the WN contract downward won't be felt until that time. I see Chase just posted another raise is due in Sept of 11%. Add that on top of the new FA contract, and you have a receipe for flat to marginal earnings in 2005 & 2006 (even with the growth prospects). The Casm increase in the first quarter went from 7.5 in 2003 to 7.82 in 2004. .24 of the .32 increase was from wage and benefits. That doesn't take into consideration the new FA contract or the 11% raise for the pilots coming up. The a/c orders are 131(47 coming this year) firm 737NG till 2008, and about 90 options. This will obviously include some retirement of older a/c, so the net affect may not be that large. Opinion is on thing, reality is another. Ther is nothing factual to back up this BS. The LUV pilots have this little thing called a contract that runs for the next few years.
Time to change the water in the bong cheech. No illegal drugs for me, just high class script meds.