JetBlue Nosedives on U.S. Economic Weakness, Fuel

[PCL_128]

What is ALPA's merger policy?

Very similar to ALG/Mohawk LPPs. In other words, direct negotiations first, then mediation, then binding arbitration.

 

[elag777]

Very similar to ALG/Mohawk LPPs. In other words, direct negotiations first, then mediation, then binding arbitration.

You missed "and then you're screwed!" :nuts:

 

[Kugelblitz]

And you were told this by who? My sister flies regularly between EWR and MCO and almost always chooses CO. Must be the outstanding service, right? Wrong. We are more expensive in almost every circumstance. Better get your facts straight before you post something with "I heard."

I don't have any real strong interest in this article but I had to laugh at your strongly worded rebuke;

'Better get your facts straight before you post.....'

Since when? There would be no posts on this website if everyone got their facts straight!!

However, as a former TWA employee I must say that the article had some similarities to our last days that were haunting. Sure there are many differences in the financial situations between the two (i.e. Caribou Ticketing, etc.) but the overall issue of flying full airplanes and not making money was like our situation towards the end.

Good luck, I have a few friends over there, and I frankly would rather see Virgin America go out of business before anyone else.

 

[lowecur]

So, if Delta continues to talk about being "the acquirer" in any future acquistion, do you think that amount listed would cover a buyout of NWA for example? I would have to think there is more cash available, or NWA or someone else would go really cheap. I still don't think mergers or acquistions are inevitable. They may occur, but they don't have to occur. The old days of merging to bring DOWN capacity and raise fares is over, since Southwest or some other LCC is generally waiting to grab an opportunity if one comes up, like an empty hub or large amount of gates.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I have my doubts that in today's market of tight credit that an acquisition is in the cards for the legacys. It would have to be a merger of some sort with an IPO for the new entity. What mgt team would control the deal would have to be worked out between the two airlines. With Wall St. Investment Banks taking in cash from overseas because of shrinking balance sheets, many will be willing to do the deal for smaller fees.

2008 is supposedly a year the airlines will all lose money. If that happens, the talks will heat up as the year goes by. All it will take is one major merger as a catalyst, and the race will be on. The next step in the evolution process will be foreign ownership. This can happen very quickly if airline balance sheets take a large enough hit where even a merger won't help.

imp: ​

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Do you know where Lufthansa parks at JFK? Not even close to Jetblue (I guess you can take a SHORT Airtrain ride...). The new terminal doesn't have any INTL sized gates (or at least that is what everyone here said when Delta buyout rumors were spreading about JB). LH shares Terminal 1 with many many other INTL airlines, and there isn't much room to be had, especially at peak times. Same at BOS, the second largest JB "Focus City." Does the new AA terminal at JFK have customs? I bet it does. Every terminal at JFK probably has customs, but not every terminal was built for INTL flights and widebodies. And again you think everyone on the LH flights will want to connect to other cities from JFK on JB. Most of the passengers on those LH flights have just flown in to Frankfurt or Munich (the two cities that have service to JFK on LH) and may have connected from other cities in Africa or Asia, and they may just want to go to NYC. It isn't a plane full of connections. You see, Delta has 20 or more widebodies a day from INTL destinations into JFK (adding 11 more in the Spring), and with all of those they have enough connecting PAX to fill some RJs and 757s to other places. The remaining pax are locals who are leaving the largest city in the US to other cities in the US. LH would have to have 10 A380s full of connecting PAX ONLY to make it profitable for JB. 3 daily widebodies won't make a dent, and even 5 or 6 really wouldn't help unless everyone onboard was connecting on JB.

Will LH get control of BMI? Don't you think the locals who currently fly BMI from Glasgow, Edinborogh, Belfast, Aberdeen, Durham Tees, Newcastle, and Dublin get mad if all of those flights to LHR would go away? Those people, probably businessmen going to London for business, might get mad enough to thwart that plan. Easyjet just gave up on getting LHR slots (they could have had some when they bought GB Air), knowing that LHR is really not a LCC airport. I have a feeling there would be strong oppostion to LH taking all or a chunk of those slots and using them for Open skies. BMI, by the way, is staying away from going West, and instead is focusing on Eastbound flights from LHR---they can see that it could be a bloodbath going to the US from LHR. The US airlines who got slots just want a foothold into LHR, allowing their best customers the ability to go to LHR is they choose, at a premium price. I don't see LH taking all of those slots and using them the way you think they may.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You are forgetting about Terminal 5. We all wonder what we are gonna do with it once we move into 6. I doubt that JB will want another airline to have it, but that doesn't mean we have the means to keep occupying it.

The rumors abound: that we already have a buyer lined up for the temp "trailer park" gates if we choose to sell them, that we will sell the trailers and renovate 6. Or that we will raze 6 and rebuild it. Or that we will raze 6 and put the trailers in its place until we can rebuild 6.

Who's this Tanker Clown? I take a FI LOA for four months, and I come back to even more losers with nothing better to do with 10 bucks. What happened to the quality control, Gen'l?

 

[General Lee]

You are forgetting about Terminal 5. We all wonder what we are gonna do with it once we move into 6. I doubt that JB will want another airline to have it, but that doesn't mean we have the means to keep occupying it.

The rumors abound: that we already have a buyer lined up for the temp "trailer park" gates if we choose to sell them, that we will sell the trailers and renovate 6. Or that we will raze 6 and rebuild it. Or that we will raze 6 and put the trailers in its place until we can rebuild 6.

Who's this Tanker Clown? I take a FI LOA for four months, and I come back to even more losers with nothing better to do with 10 bucks. What happened to the quality control, Gen'l?

Good question. Anyway, even if there are eventual gates open, the next question is about who can use "slots" during the peak departure times. The FAA wants to cap departures, and extra flights won't be the norm for awhile unless they are at non peak hours. Welcome back.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I have my doubts that in today's market of tight credit that an acquisition is in the cards for the legacys. It would have to be a merger of some sort with an IPO for the new entity. What mgt team would control the deal would have to be worked out between the two airlines. With Wall St. Investment Banks taking in cash from overseas because of shrinking balance sheets, many will be willing to do the deal for smaller fees.

2008 is supposedly a year the airlines will all lose money. If that happens, the talks will heat up as the year goes by. All it will take is one major merger as a catalyst, and the race will be on. The next step in the evolution process will be foreign ownership. This can happen very quickly if airline balance sheets take a large enough hit where even a merger won't help.

imp: ​

Not many airlines lose money over the Spring and Summer quarters. It seems merger talk always revolves around Fall and Winter quarters when things are normally worse. As far as foreign ownership, I have stated that full foreign ownership is not really in the cards for a legacy because our planes may be needed for MAC charters if we enter another War, and a foreign owner may balk at that. I can see some more partial investments, but there are ownership max percentages in place for a reason.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hardcorr]

If I ever figure out who tanker clown is he'll never work at SWA. Who's with me. We don't need tools like that here. We'll call it the Tanker Clown black-ball commitee

 

[400ADude]

Very similar to ALG/Mohawk LPPs. In other words, direct negotiations first, then mediation, then binding arbitration.

So essentially this legislation hasn't done anything. Am I missing anything?

What if it were Jetblue and say Delta? Or how about Jet Blue and Airtran? What then?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

You are forgetting about Terminal 5. We all wonder what we are gonna do with it once we move into 6. I doubt that JB will want another airline to have it, but that doesn't mean we have the means to keep occupying it.

The rumors abound: that we already have a buyer lined up for the temp "trailer park" gates if we choose to sell them, that we will sell the trailers and renovate 6. Or that we will raze 6 and rebuild it. Or that we will raze 6 and put the trailers in its place until we can rebuild 6.

Who's this Tanker Clown? I take a FI LOA for four months, and I come back to even more losers with nothing better to do with 10 bucks. What happened to the quality control, Gen'l?

Hey, looky looky who's back. Are you surprised jetblue is still around, Chef?

 

[Tanker Clown]

If I ever figure out who tanker clown is he'll never work at SWA. Who's with me. We don't need tools like that here. We'll call it the Tanker Clown black-ball commitee

I have a few more years before I retire, so there's time to work on the commitee. Hopefully they'll be hiring in a few years. Man, I don't want to have to work at Delta...but I might have to find a way to stay current until SWA hires. I'll just have to suck it up and go the DAL, NWA, UAL route if things are still slow.

 

[lowecur]

You are forgetting about Terminal 5. We all wonder what we are gonna do with it once we move into 6. I doubt that JB will want another airline to have it, but that doesn't mean we have the means to keep occupying it.

The rumors abound: that we already have a buyer lined up for the temp "trailer park" gates if we choose to sell them, that we will sell the trailers and renovate 6. Or that we will raze 6 and rebuild it. Or that we will raze 6 and put the trailers in its place until we can rebuild 6.

Who's this Tanker Clown? I take a FI LOA for four months, and I come back to even more losers with nothing better to do with 10 bucks. What happened to the quality control, Gen'l?

Actually you are moving into 5, and vacating 6, no?

imp:​

 

[aerobato]

If I ever figure out who tanker clown is he'll never work at SWA. Who's with me. We don't need tools like that here. We'll call it the Tanker Clown black-ball commitee

Get emotional about people posting on this dumb site much?

 

[lowecur]

Do you know where Lufthansa parks at JFK? Not even close to Jetblue (I guess you can take a SHORT Airtrain ride...).

Will LH get control of BMI?

Bye Bye--General Lee

What does where LH parks at JFK have to do with moving into the new T-5? I said before that B6 can give up 6-10 narrowbody gates and change them to 4-6 widebody international gates while construction is still underway. I'm sure some Star Alliance international members would be glad to help foot the bill for the use and feed. This could include LH, BMI, South African, Lingus, Singapore, Asiana, and Air China. Another option is razing T-6 and building a new Star Alliance Terminal for international carriers with a bridge to the new B6 terminal.

B6 would have to cut back on unprofitable transcon routes, and possibly forego the shuttles to achieve this very profitable makeover. It would have to include the addition of between 6-12 first class seats on both the 190/320.

As far as BMI is concerned, BA will have a big say so on LH buying the airline. The only things stopping BA from competing for BMI would be antitrust issues and a bidding war with LH. 50 slots exist for BMI, so I can see them using at least 10 for open sky flights to many of the LH destinations in the states.

imp: ​

 

[PCL_128]

So essentially this legislation hasn't done anything. Am I missing anything?

ALG/Mohawk ceased being the law of the land after the CAB was dismantled with deregulation. Now it is only used when an airline has labor agreements that require it. In other words, under the current law, if two non-union airlines (Skybus and Virgin America, for example) were to merge, then there is zero merger protection under the law for the employees. Management for the acquiring airline could simply staple every employee from the purchased airline. If ALG/Mohawk is made law, then employees would have at least some minimal seniority protections under the law, even if they aren't unionized.

What if it were Jetblue and say Delta? Or how about Jet Blue and Airtran? What then?

Delta and AirTran pilots have clauses in our contracts that require specific merger procedures. In the examples you cite, ALG/Mohawk LPPs would be used. In a merger between two ALPA carriers, ALPA merger policy would be used.