Jetblue EMB rates

[BluDevAv8r]

whats wrong with each airline representing themselves. Honestly how can ALPA be effective trying to represent the bigs and the regionals. Some of you may argue that the MEC are seperate but come one something obviously isnt working. They need seperate unions with only very loose affiliations for national lobbying powers. If im not mistaken UPS SWAPA and Air Trans union have something similar to this already set up? What do you guys think?

Each airline does represent itself within ALPA. No other airline has ever come to one of our MEC meetings and told us what to do...nor has any National officer or professional staffer. We make our own decisions and then live with the consequences of those decisions. Are there scope issues? Of course. That is by nature of the contracts that have been bargained over the past 50 years...so you have to work with what you have been dealt. CAL owns everything above 50 seats right now...so we must deal with that reality...and we also must deal with the reality that we don't even own everything 50 seats and under. CAL management does!

-Neal

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Neal says "What some were saying as far as scheduling rules aren't necessarily productivity enhancements but rather - protections against certain other issues. For example, can you guys be scheduled for a PC immediately following your vacation or do you need to be given a few days between your vacation and your sim slot? We built that provision into the XJT contract to allow some time to study since clearly none of us wants to be studying our manuals while on vacation in Cabo. "

Actually Neal, a quick e-mail to the sim scheduler fixes everything. But you have to be a little proactive. The beauty of our system is that we can communicate directly to the people who affect our QOL without the hinderence of a hard document. Believe me when I say, they are more than happy to work with you given the chance.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal says "What some were saying as far as scheduling rules aren't necessarily productivity enhancements but rather - protections against certain other issues. For example, can you guys be scheduled for a PC immediately following your vacation or do you need to be given a few days between your vacation and your sim slot? We built that provision into the XJT contract to allow some time to study since clearly none of us wants to be studying our manuals while on vacation in Cabo. "

Actually Neal, a quick e-mail to the sim scheduler fixes everything. But you have to be a little proactive. The beauty of our system is that we can communicate directly to the people who affect our QOL without the hinderence of a hard document. Believe me when I say, they are more than happy to work with you given the chance.

I wasn't saying it wasn't possible but was just giving an example of the kind of protection that a hard document can afford since some thought that the poster was talking about productivity improvements. In actuality, productivity per day will never be enhanced by any scheduling rule. The best productivity can be achieved by just flying the FAR's (with no policy or contract whatsoever). But of course, with that, comes a mountain of other problems (rest issues, etc...since we all know that if we only flew to the FAR's we would never be fully rested or safe).

There are other companies that allow such communication as well. Some of them even have unions and CBA's. XJT is one of them. We have one of the most pilot-friendly Flight Ops management teams in the industry (this comes from talking to many other MEC's in all segments of the industry by the way). I've heard great things about your Flight Ops guys as well.

I am not suggesting that JB get a union in any of my posts by the way. That is a JB pilot-group decision and certainly not mine or any other non-JB pilot. I've always said that management will get a union if it deserves one...and if it comes to that, they will then get the union that they deserve. As long as the kind of communication, trust, integrity, etc, continues at JB, then a union won't materialize. The minute that you guys lose that kind of trust and solid relationship, the tide will turn of course.

-Neal

 

[8vATE]

There are other companies that allow such communication as well. Some of them even have unions and CBA's. XJT is one of them. We have one of the most pilot-friendly Flight Ops management teams in the industry (this comes from talking to many other MEC's in all segments of the industry by the way). I've heard great things about your Flight Ops guys as well.

The minute that you guys lose that kind of trust and solid relationship, the tide will turn of course.

-Neal

Not to throw rocks at you Neal..

But aren't you guys at XJet in a predicament with losing all those airplanes?

Who's fault is that?
ALPA.. Mgt... The pilot group?

 

[Mr Hat]

But aren't you guys at XJet in a predicament with losing all those airplanes?

Who's fault is that?
ALPA.. Mgt... The pilot group?

Nobody's fault.....CAL management made a decision. Why do you assume that someone screwed up? Whats your point?

 

[calfo]

Not to throw rocks at you Neal..

But aren't you guys at XJet in a predicament with losing all those airplanes?

Who's fault is that?
ALPA.. Mgt... The pilot group?

What a dick....

 

[tailhookah]

go fix your own airline

I'm tired of everyone who doesn't work at JetBlue telling us to get a union. I'm furloughed from an ALPA carrier who's in big trouble and I don't want a union much less ALPA. My philosophy if it's not broken then don't break it. Why would we need a union? Things work at B6. Like everyone has said the company works through issues w/ us with what is in place. Values Committee, Scheduling Committee, etc. We even don't have to pay dues....what a concept! Here's some advice for all of you who don't fly for B6 who keep telling us to get a union.... focus on your broken company and broken union and focus on your own problems.

Tail

 

[A350]

Yeah, DW makes like 500K a year.....surely he didn't make more than that before.

A350

 

[Pilotbob3]

ive got an ALPA, APA, and Teamsters card. a lot of good they did me huh? happy with no union!

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Not to throw rocks at you Neal..

But aren't you guys at XJet in a predicament with losing all those airplanes?

Who's fault is that?
ALPA.. Mgt... The pilot group?

It must be ALPA's fault!

All kidding aside, this isn't ALPA's fault or the pilot group's fault. It was a corporate decision made by Continental Airlines because they believed they could find lower block hour rates for 50 seat feed than what was being offered by ExpressJet at their negotiating table.

And just so we are all on the same page, we aren't losing 69 airplanes. We may lose some block hours for CAL but CAL has given us those 69 airplanes to use elsewhere. Semantics perhaps...but very important semantics if you truly understand the marketing agreement and relationship between the 2 companies.

Lastly, I don't see the correllation here between this topic of discussion and the fact that ExpressJet might not be flying as much for CAL in a year. The ExpressJet MEC negotiated a very fair contract with ExpressJet management. It is now ExpressJet management's job to negotiate over potential flying for CAL. If they can't make it work, so be it. That is business and life. But it definitely isn't the pilot group's fault (or ALPA's...or DW's...etc). To say any otherwise would be a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Yeah, DW makes like 500K a year.....surely he didn't make more than that before.

A350

You've got DW's W-2 for 2005? How did you get that?

 

[A350]

OK, since you are in the know, what did he make last year?

The information I have is what I have seen from years past. If he has taken a paycut, it is news to me.

Hell, the office manager there makes 300K a year....I doubt that DW makes LESS.

A350

 

[BluDevAv8r]

OK, since you are in the know, what did he make last year?

I don't know what he made last year. I haven't seen his W-2 (just like I haven't seen yours).

The information I have is what I have seen from years past. If he has taken a paycut, it is news to me.

Where have you seen his exact pay information? I'm sure it is available somewhere but where have you seen it?

What I do know, however, is that his pay is reset every year determined off of a methodology that is based off of the highest rates at several airlines in ALPA. So if those rates have gone south, so has his pay. And with all of the concessionary bargaining as of late, his pay has and should go down. That said, he is the head of a national union representing 66,000 pilots. He is going to have some benefits and perks that the average line pilot doesn't...just like he has made certain sacrifices that the line pilot hasn't...and he is also doing a job that isn't a line pilot job. Some will never be able to accept that a politician and leader will make more than the average line pilot.

Hell, the office manager there makes 300K a year....I doubt that DW makes LESS.

"Office manager?" You mean the person that answers the phones and orders the office supplies? Or do you mean the person at ALPA that has the equivalent of the Chief Operating Officer position at a multi-hundred million dollar company? Because that is what ALPA is...it is a large organization, like it or not.

-Neal

 

[rudderdog]

Dude dont get bent just look at this guys profile:

His calls himself capnbob and talks about his 928s4 a car that even in the 80's was ugly as hell

His avatar is superman

his lists every large jet that he has flown except the concorde because he soloed that one so it doesnt count!

If he is the big capnbob superpilot old porsche driving from when he still had hair 6 figure megapilot he wouldn't be posting in reply to your message now would he?

clickclickboom,

This may be few days late, but certainly deserves a reply.

First of all, where do you get off bashing capnbob's avatar and qualifications? You're credibility is quickly going to zero. He was simply stating the facts. Whoever said "$100,000" was totally exagerating and possibly drinking a little kool-aid too. That's fine though, we all do it sometimes. And, not that you care, but I do know capnbob, and there is no other pilot I know of that is as professional and skilled as he. Most who have worked with him will agree. Also, since you seem to be interested in his physical qualities as well...yes, he still has hair and could probably take you in two. So, even though you don't agree with his math for some reason.....just grow up a little.

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Puke Boy,

3%

We'll find out sometime in February/March.

Of course they did. Specifically, premiums are up slightly and the deductible we're responsible for stayed the same.

How about where you work? Remember, no excuses...

3%....Ok...kinda low, but at least its something.

Word on the street is JB has said there would be no profit sharing this year. So I think you dodged that question rather poorly.

Premiums are up eh? From 05 to 06? How bout the big jump you guys had from
04 to 05? Heard that was a nasty increase.

All in all....JB is paying RJ wages to fly the 190 (when it gets off gate) and sticking it to its junior pilots. Skirt can talk all she wants about "the needs of the pilot" (which she edited out of her post later....I think because someone in upper management told her to) but it comes down to this....the pay is low for the job being done. The pilots who opt to fly it don't want to give up seniority to wait for the bus. I'd do the same in that situation. But lets be clear....its not for the pay on the 190. Its to get a number on the seniority list.

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

While I agree with Skirt, I certainly don't agree with the pay rates. However, I do have every belief that our management will "do the right thing" and adjust the pay rates when the A/C proves itself. When? Who knows. My guess is (I hope I'm wrong and it's sooner)....but somewhere in the next 14-18 months. As the upgrade time gets longer on the 190 we are going to have to pay higher rates to keep classes filled.
As you've heard a few times the 320 paid pretty low wages (relative) when it was launched. I think our management team has a pretty logical approach to how they deal with business decisions like these. " We don't want to promise something and have to take it away (ie.pay) We would rather have it on property, make sure it does what it's supposed to do, then spread the rewards"

As of right now, it's still going through some growing pains but quickly becoming a great airplane for the mission it was designed. Time will tell but I do believe there are hundreds of markets this Airplane will do well in and generate some great revenue for the bottom line.

Last I checked the A320 was not launched by Jetblue. UAL,AWA,NWA and many others had flown the aircraft profitably for years. So I disagree with your argument on why the pay on the A320 was raised. Any chance they had to raise it to get folks to stop going to other airlines? Just a question.

 

[Neil Eubich]

But lets be clear....its not for the pay on the 190. Its to get a number on the seniority list.

I'd take it even one step further Mickey......it's not even to get the seniority number because the difference is only about a month between the two. The REAL reason guys are taking the 190 over the bus is because the upgrade for a guy hired today into the 320 is going to be around 4 years, just to sit on reserve for 18-24 monts. The upgrade to capt on the 190 is around 12-13 months, and the guys are going to make more $$ and have much better QOL schedule-wise on the 190 as a Capt then they will as a FO on the bus.

 

[elag777]

Last I checked the A320 was not launched by Jetblue. UAL,AWA,NWA and many others had flown the aircraft profitably for years. So I disagree with your argument on why the pay on the A320 was raised. Any chance they had to raise it to get folks to stop going to other airlines? Just a question.

Do you use the word launched in the same context as "launched the space shuttle"? how many have been flown now? I guess the last one was not "launched" as they had done it before?
Oh and NWA UAL AMR and AWA were all hiring at the time of the 320 rate increase right?

 

[elag777]

I'd take it even one step further Mickey......it's not even to get the seniority number because the difference is only about a month between the two. The REAL reason guys are taking the 190 over the bus is because the upgrade for a guy hired today into the 320 is going to be around 4 years, just to sit on reserve for 18-24 monts. The upgrade to capt on the 190 is around 12-13 months, and the guys are going to make more $$ and have much better QOL schedule-wise on the 190 as a Capt then they will as a FO on the bus.

pass a match for the bong...

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Do you use the word launched in the same context as "launched the space shuttle"? how many have been flown now? I guess the last one was not "launched" as they had done it before?
Oh and NWA UAL AMR and AWA were all hiring at the time of the 320 rate increase right?

Not sure what your getting at with the launched thing. I was just responding to what the other guy had said.

Yes....all the majors were hiring when JB scheduled the raise.