JetBlue: Below average and it's going to stay that way.

[milehigh6080]

717 MTOW is 120,000....FWIW?

Thanks, I have no experience in the 717 and just found those numbers on Wikipedia. They list a 717-200 "basic gross weight" variant with MTOW of 110,000lb and 1430nm range as well as a "high gross weight" variant with MTOW of 121,000lb and 2060 nm range. I think the Basic Gross Weight version is a better comparison to the E190 which is why I referenced that one.

So yeah, even compared to the high gross weight model, the E190 is only 6,000 lbs off and is still squarely in that size range as opposed to RJ size range that our company would like to compare our pay rates to for political advantage purposes.

 

[milehigh6080]

if things are so bad you can always leave. unfortunately, losers like you come with their tongues watering and then stay on and moan and groan about how the world has done them wrong. Every B6 pilot has had an option not to sign the PEA or not to renew. If you really want to take a stand lets see you do that.

Dude!

Sweet idea, I'm almost embarassed that I didn't think of it sooner!

Tomorrow, I'm just gonna call FedEx and tell them to expect me in class on April 1. Or should I call Delta? Maybe Southwest? UPS?

All these options are making my head spin!! I never realized that working at XYZ carrier was as simple as just picking one and showing up to class.

I always thought that you had to wait until one announced that they were hiring, and that in general there are only a small number of "career" carriers hiring at any given time- if any at all. Once the window is open at your dream carrier, I always thought you needed to be in a good position to apply, vis a vis meeting their competitive minimums, being in a family and financial situation that allows you to step back to first year pay and junior reserve at a new carrier, and being one of the lucky ones chosen to interview out of the tall stack of resumes of people who look virtually identical to you on paper.

I guess the egg is really on my face, I can't believe I've been wasting my time by NOT just picking a sweet gig and showing up to work uninvited. Here I thought it was easier to retain my seniority at the profitable, revenue generating machine of an airline that I'm already at and sit down at a negotiating table with pilot representatives and company representatives reasonably discussing what my rightful share is in all this revenue. If not easier, maybe it's at least a decent way to spend my time till I choose from the multitude of really awesome job offers that I have right now.

 

[linepilot]

if things are so bad you can always leave. unfortunately, losers like you come with their tongues watering and then stay on and moan and groan about how the world has done them wrong. Every B6 pilot has had an option not to sign the PEA or not to renew. If you really want to take a stand lets see you do that.

Oh I'm taking a stand.

I'm hoping my stand trickles down to our NPS score.

Dave told me in no uncertain words during my interview 10 years ago that our insurance would improve as the company grew. I asked that question because it was VERY important for my family. What happened in 10 years is that our insurance got far worse. It is now arguably the WORST insurance enjoyed by major airline pilots.

So Dave changed his mind and so did I. You both need to deal with it fools.

No. I won't be going elsewhere. I changed my entire life based on the sales job that Dave and Dave and Al gave me and if I can't get my fellow pilots to bring them to Section 6 then at least I can get a good number of my fellow pilots to drag them into arbitration and a smaller number to withdraw their enthusiasm.

Enjoy.

 

[crash312]

Oh I'm taking a stand.

I'm hoping my stand trickles down to our NPS score.

Dave told me in no uncertain words during my interview 10 years ago that our insurance would improve as the company grew. I asked that question because it was VERY important for my family. What happened in 10 years is that our insurance got far worse. It is now arguably the WORST insurance enjoyed by major airline pilots.

So Dave changed his mind and so did I. You both need to deal with it fools.

No. I won't be going elsewhere. I changed my entire life based on the sales job that Dave and Dave and Al gave me and if I can't get my fellow pilots to bring them to Section 6 then at least I can get a good number of my fellow pilots to drag them into arbitration and a smaller number to withdraw their enthusiasm.

Enjoy.

There is no argument...it is the worst, probably among the regionals (minus skywest, for now) too. I know it is the worse amongst the 3 airlines I've been at, by far. The sad part is, it is about to get much, much worse. Of course, they will sell it as "industry leading".

 

[shon7]

Dave told me in no uncertain words during my interview 10 years ago that our insurance would improve as the company grew.

I changed my entire life based on the sales job that Dave and Dave and Al gave me

Oh dear. What a pity. Nevermind.

You took a risk by joining a startup airline and were aware of that. If the insurance issue was that important you should have insisted on a written commitment.

By the way, here's how you would have fared if you didnt join B6 (assuming you're not one of the regional pilots and not some disgruntled flight attendant posing as a pilot)

UAL - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
NWA - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
DAL- paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
US Air/ America West - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits but a place in the greatest show on earth
CAL - you'd have been a moron to leave
AMR - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits (coming soon)
LUV - you'd have been a moron to leave

So in case you didn't hear me the first time around:
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT -- LEAVE.

 

[Smarta$$]

Dude!

Sweet idea, I'm almost embarassed that I didn't think of it sooner!

Tomorrow, I'm just gonna call FedEx and tell them to expect me in class on April 1. Or should I call Delta? Maybe Southwest? UPS?

All these options are making my head spin!! I never realized that working at XYZ carrier was as simple as just picking one and showing up to class.

I always thought that you had to wait until one announced that they were hiring, and that in general there are only a small number of "career" carriers hiring at any given time- if any at all. Once the window is open at your dream carrier, I always thought you needed to be in a good position to apply, vis a vis meeting their competitive minimums, being in a family and financial situation that allows you to step back to first year pay and junior reserve at a new carrier, and being one of the lucky ones chosen to interview out of the tall stack of resumes of people who look virtually identical to you on paper.

I guess the egg is really on my face, I can't believe I've been wasting my time by NOT just picking a sweet gig and showing up to work uninvited. Here I thought it was easier to retain my seniority at the profitable, revenue generating machine of an airline that I'm already at and sit down at a negotiating table with pilot representatives and company representatives reasonably discussing what my rightful share is in all this revenue. If not easier, maybe it's at least a decent way to spend my time till I choose from the multitude of really awesome job offers that I have right now.

BEST post in recent memory!

 

[Smarta$$]

Oh dear. What a pity. Nevermind.

You took a risk by joining a startup airline and were aware of that. If the insurance issue was that important you should have insisted on a written commitment.

By the way, here's how you would have fared if you didnt join B6 (assuming you're not one of the regional pilots and not some disgruntled flight attendant posing as a pilot)

UAL - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
NWA - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
DAL- paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
US Air/ America West - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits but a place in the greatest show on earth
CAL - you'd have been a moron to leave
AMR - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits (coming soon)
LUV - you'd have been a moron to leave

So in case you didn't hear me the first time around:
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT -- LEAVE.

One of the WORST posts in recent memory!

 

[Lake Alice]

Oh dear. What a pity. Nevermind.

You took a risk by joining a startup airline and were aware of that. If the insurance issue was that important you should have insisted on a written commitment.

By the way, here's how you would have fared if you didnt join B6 (assuming you're not one of the regional pilots and not some disgruntled flight attendant posing as a pilot)

UAL - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
NWA - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
DAL- paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
US Air/ America West - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits but a place in the greatest show on earth
CAL - you'd have been a moron to leave
AMR - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits (coming soon)
LUV - you'd have been a moron to leave

So in case you didn't hear me the first time around:
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT -- LEAVE.

UAL better benefits and retirement
NWA...
DAL better pay, benefits and retirement
USair better benefits
CAL...
AMR better pay, retirement and benefits. Even in bankruptcy AMRs initial offer of retirement is better than JetBlue.

Stop talking to blue bayou. He's making you look as bad as him.

 

[Lake Alice]

Shon7, learn to read.

 

[Lake Alice]

 

[Lake Alice]

 

[linepilot]

Oh dear. What a pity. Nevermind.

You took a risk by joining a startup airline and were aware of that. If the insurance issue was that important you should have insisted on a written commitment.

By the way, here's how you would have fared if you didnt join B6 (assuming you're not one of the regional pilots and not some disgruntled flight attendant posing as a pilot)

UAL - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
NWA - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
DAL- paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits
US Air/ America West - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits but a place in the greatest show on earth
CAL - you'd have been a moron to leave
AMR - paycut, loss of pension & loss of benefits (coming soon)
LUV - you'd have been a moron to leave

So in case you didn't hear me the first time around:
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT -- LEAVE.

Negative Ghost Rider!

There's still so much work to do.

What you need to do is take the whining, the complaining,
and the deteriorating NPS scores and put them in your little
pipe and smoke it.

Sowing and reaping. Reaping and sowing.

Please enjoy!

 

[J32driver]

wow. thats one great comeback. Of course i would not expect more of an affirmative action welfare monger who flew a bunch of regional jets (supposedly)

:laugh: I stand by my wager. There is only 1 group of pilots in this country that can produce a pilot as brain damaged as you. If I'm wrong... it is because you are a management or Ford and Harrison plant sent here to stir up fertilizer.

 

[accinelli]

I usually dont post on this board but have to agree with the poster about constantly moaning and complaining. There are better things to do out there than flying. Getting out of the industry is one of the best things people can do in terms of better pay & happiness.

As for comparing Jetblue with Legacy pay rates - thats incorrect as both have very different cost bases and business models. Its like working at a budget hotel and asked to be paid at Four Seasons rates.

 

[Blue Dude]

Its like working at a budget hotel and asked to be paid at Four Seasons rates.

What happens when the budget hotel consistently outperforms the Four Seasons, but still cries poor?

 

[shon7]

What happens when the budget hotel consistently outperforms the Four Seasons, but still cries poor?

Outperform! Wow. Thats some strong stuff you're smoking.

A good cost base cannot be eroded to pacify the entitlement seekers. Chrysler and GM did and see what happened.

 

[J32driver]

Outperform! Wow. Thats some strong stuff you're smoking.

A good cost base cannot be eroded to pacify the entitlement seekers. Chrysler and GM did and see what happened.

Average.

They promised LUV -2%. They wouldn't do it. They promised us "average". They won't do it. Pay average, but delivered 6-12 months late every year. Retirement, way below average. Health Care, absolutely the highest cost to the employee in the industry. STD/LTD, hope you enjoy those COBRA payments. If you go out any lower than line holder 320 Captain, you stand a VERY real chance of losing your savings, your credit rating, your retirement, and ultimately your house. Loss of License... we don't have it. Anyone who says we do is uninformed or lying. Vacation/PTO accrual, significantly less than average.

We have been fighting to gain our promised "Average" compensation package.

Shon7, does begging for "average" sound like "entitlement" to you?

 

[pilotyip]

I usually dont post on this board but have to agree with the poster about constantly moaning and complaining. There are better things to do out there than flying. Getting out of the industry is one of the best things people can do in terms of better pay & happiness.

As for comparing Jetblue with Legacy pay rates - thats incorrect as both have very different cost bases and business models. Its like working at a budget hotel and asked to be paid at Four Seasons rates.

thank you, nice touch. Life is too short do this much unhappiness

 

[J32driver]

When I first came to motherblue, pay was low but the schedules made it tolerable. My average schedule the first three years was 17 days off, 85-90 hours of pay, always commutable on either the front or back and sometimes on both. You can overlook a lot when you are banking 17 days off every month.

JetBlue lost this pilot group when some over zealous, boot licking, jackholes took a can of gas and a match to those schedules. 12-13 days off to get 78 hours is the norm now. Now we have a hole lot of free time sitting in hotels to get on web boards and complain.

 

[jamiestrat]

When I first came to motherblue, pay was low but the schedules made it tolerable. My average schedule the first three years was 17 days off, 85-90 hours of pay, always commutable on either the front or back and sometimes on both. You can overlook a lot when you are banking 17 days off every month.

JetBlue lost this pilot group when some over zealous, boot licking, jackholes took a can of gas and a match to those schedules. 12-13 days off to get 78 hours is the norm now. Now we have a hole lot of free time sitting in hotels to get on web boards and complain.

Looking at the category lines for April, there were only a couple of line holders who had 13 days off. I would say the average was 15 days off between 80-85 of credit. What base and position are you looking at?

 

[GuppyPuppy]

the FACT is that the market has changed DRASTICALLY in the last 8 years. Of course guys like you couldnt care less since it goes against the very entitlement mentality at the core of your being.

Entitlement mentality?

I am a professional airline pilot who cares for his crew and his customers. I care about operating the aircraft in a safe and efficient manner.

I expect that an employer would recognize this and compensate me accordingly. I'm not even asking for industry leading compensation, all I'm asking for is what the company told me to expect. This company expects me to go above and beyond on a regular basis. The JB pilot group is the most productive pilot group in the industry (reference the M.I.T. report from 2010). Yet, we are compensated (pay, benefits, work rules, retirement) below average. This is a fact.

I expect to be compensated as a professional. If the company can't do that then they'll actually get what they pay for and it will hurt them in the long run.

GP

 

[J32driver]

Looking at the category lines for April, there were only a couple of line holders who had 13 days off. I would say the average was 15 days off between 80-85 of credit. What base and position are you looking at?

This month. How's it been for the last 2 years on a whole? If you've been here longer then that... you know the answer. If you've been here shorter than that... you have no idea what we've lost.

 

[StarChecker]

As for comparing Jetblue with Legacy pay rates - thats incorrect as both have very different cost bases and business models. Its like working at a budget hotel and asked to be paid at Four Seasons rates.

But comparing JetBlue with Legacy rates is precisely what JetBlue agreed to do. Here we are...still waiting for it. And what are we waiting for? Industry leading? Oh no....just average. It's all we've ever asked for and we're still waiting.

JetBlue Pilots...fighting for mediocrity since 2000.

 

[shon7]

Entitlement mentality?

I am a professional airline pilot who cares for his crew and his customers. I care about operating the aircraft in a safe and efficient manner.

I expect that an employer would recognize this and compensate me accordingly. I'm not even asking for industry leading compensation, all I'm asking for is what the company told me to expect.

GP

So is every other regional pilot, fractional pilot and CFI.

By the way Obama told you to expect an economic recovery and a thriving America where corporate greed would no longer be tolerated.
How's that working out?

 

[shon7]

But comparing JetBlue with Legacy rates is precisely what JetBlue agreed to do. Here we are...still waiting for it. And what are we waiting for? Industry leading? Oh no....just average. It's all we've ever asked for and we're still waiting.

JetBlue Pilots...fighting for mediocrity since 2000.

Jetblue has changed in case you didnt notice. The founder is gone, the market has changed and there is a new management team in place.

Deal with it or move on.

 

[Lake Alice]

Jetblue has changed in case you didnt notice. The founder is gone, the market has changed and there is a new management team in place.

Deal with it or move on.

Yet still fighting for mediocracy since 2000.

The management team has changed yet the mentality has not. The leadership bonuses have increases yet the pilot budget has not. The charts don't lie. Try reading them sometime shon7.

 

[linepilot]

Jetblue has changed in case you didnt notice. The founder is gone, the market has changed and there is a new management team in place.

Deal with it or move on.

How about NO?

Maybe jetblew should adapt to the realities of pilot pay and benefits.

The yearly CHANGE at jetblew is exactly WHY pilots need a contract.

Deal with THAT you little toad.

 

[B6Busdriver]

JetBlue:

Pay-decent
STD-expensive
LTD-abysmal
Quality of medical-horrid
Cost of medical-exorbitant
Medical on LTD-atrocious
Retirement-sub par
Vacation/sick time-mediocre
Merger protection-abominable
Scope-inadequate

Pilot group-apathetic!

 

[J32driver]

Deal with it or move on.

Oh... we are dealing with it. It will take years, but make no mistake, we are dealing with it!

 

[filejw]

When I first came to motherblue, pay was low but the schedules made it tolerable. My average schedule the first three years was 17 days off, 85-90 hours of pay, always commutable on either the front or back and sometimes on both. You can overlook a lot when you are banking 17 days off every month.

JetBlue lost this pilot group when some over zealous, boot licking, jackholes took a can of gas and a match to those schedules. 12-13 days off to get 78 hours is the norm now. Now we have a hole lot of free time sitting in hotels to get on web boards and complain.

That free time statement is more than you think. Ever see a SWA schedule, they don't have time to bitch. 3 day trips worth 20 hrs with 15 hr layovers so you have time for a beer and dinner and that's it. No 3hrs sits for sure. I think the management theory is work them to death and send them home and of course a nice pay check.