JetBlue: Below average and it's going to stay that way.

[pilotyip]

please leave so I can be a part of JetBlue.

Ditto long line of salivating pilots at KYIP, just waiting for a chance to go to the promised land. Scheduled flying; new equip, better pay, better benefits, more days off, so please evryone bail as soon as possible

 

[BUDDHA145]

Hahaha!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ultrarunner]

I am not sure if this answers your question.

The peer set, benchmark, is made up of part 121 major passenger airlines. Once a year, I believe in the fall, the pay rates are collected and the numbers crunched, then this rate should become the target for the next year.

Last year when the numbers were taken, it showed a 2.2% shortfall between the target and the current rate.

Mind you, these numbers does not take into account Pilot CASM, an area where the company is way below average due to high productivity.

If you have not seen it, the MIT airline study is a great information source, don't have the link in front of me, but a quick search will find it.

Thanks for the info Dizel. Averages are fairly pointless IMO. Median is more meaningful as is the percentile. Two percent is pretty small, relatively speaking.

 

[Lake Alice]

The 2% is JetBlues estimation for the retirement only and does not accuratelt depict the short fall in monthly contribution. Profit sharing is used as our base retirement compensation although board approval is required on a year toyear basis so not guaranteed. Vacation days we are a minimum of 7 days behind. We have no loss of license. We pay our own insurance on STD and pay cobra rates on LTD.

 

[Dizel8]

UR,

Not a genius, so not quite sure what numbers you want me to produce? I am not being argumentative here by any means, but I presented how the numbers were derived and why it shows a 2.2% shortfall.

So, since I love to learn and since I want to provide you with information you can utilize, please tell me what you feel you are missing?

 

[troll565]

Medical, Retirement, Vacation and Sick time policies.

That's all part of pay, not just hourly rate

 

[J32driver]

That's all part of pay, not just hourly rate

Tell that to mother Blue! They want us to look at the hourly rate and feel pretty good about ourselves. It is when you look at everything else that you start to realize how cheap jetBlue's pilot labor really is compared to the rest of the industry.

The only direct apples to apples comparison is Pilot CASM that can be found in the MIT papers.

 

[troll565]

Tell that to mother Blue! They want us to look at the hourly rate and feel pretty good about ourselves. It is when you look at everything else that you start to realize how cheap jetBlue's pilot labor really is compared to the rest of the industry.

The only direct apples to apples comparison is Pilot CASM that can be found in the MIT papers.

where is this MIT Paper?

 

[ultrarunner]

UR,

Not a genius, so not quite sure what numbers you want me to produce? I am not being argumentative here by any means, but I presented how the numbers were derived and why it shows a 2.2% shortfall.

So, since I love to learn and since I want to provide you with information you can utilize, please tell me what you feel you are missing?

Normally Dizel, a company will bench mark against the industry in each component of the compensation package: Salary, benefits, etc..., and then stack themselves as a percentile against their like-companies. It's a far better measure on where a particular position falls when ranked amongst the industry. And the MIT study may very well do that, I just haven't read it yet.

It's been my experience that no reputable comp studies today take into account any type of "averages". A bench mark percentile against the "median" is a far better picture and shows you exactly where you stand.

Ultra

 

[Flyby1206]

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

 

[jonjuan]

A buddy of mine at JB refers to it as the "Walmart" of the airline industry. He's applying to Emirates as we speak.

That must mean you work for the "Dollarstore" of the industry. Your family must be So proud.

 

[curtaindriver]

I get a little tired of these guys posting stuff on these sites that isn't even fact.....yet. We may not get the 2.2, my sources say we will in fact get it. Although I agree it doesn't make up for a lot of shortfalls, because it's actually a "look-back" comparison. We are 2.2% behind our peers using 2011 numbers. But, if they do bring us up, it brings our A320 compensation to the average of "like" airlines, with similar aircraft. This will also bring up the 190 to within 10% of the Bus.
Although our retirement is behind, it is not 7% behind. Using other airlines profit sharing paints an inaccurate picture. No other airline guarantees a profit every year......so using guaranteed numbers we are 3% behind our peers in retirement.
Our PTO is used for everything, including sick...vacation, and personal time off. But, to it's credit........it also has a monetary value. No other airline has this. If you have over 100 hours accrued, you can sell back PTO at premium.....(150% base). Also, a 35 credit week of vacation only costs the pilot 24.5 hours.
Our premium pay system of anything above 78 hours is 150% isn't too bad. It's potentially worthless on months there is no open time. I for one would give this up for a base rate raise.
Our rigs are in line with the industry, but our per day rig is controlled incorrectly, in my opinion. It averages 5 hours per day, but should be 5 per day minimum.

We absolutely need a union, and the protections with it.....and also the ability to negotiate. But, some of the posters on this site are the typical never happy, always frustrated, constantly bitching pilots every airline has.

Even with all of the shortfalls at JetBlue, I still enjoy going to work.....and am proud to be here and fly here. Just my opinion.

CD

 

[Fins Up]

I get a little tired of these guys posting stuff on these sites that isn't even fact.....yet. We may not get the 2.2, my sources say we will in fact get it. Although I agree it doesn't make up for a lot of shortfalls, because it's actually a "look-back" comparison. We are 2.2% behind our peers using 2011 numbers. But, if they do bring us up, it brings our A320 compensation to the average of "like" airlines, with similar aircraft. This will also bring up the 190 to within 10% of the Bus.
Although our retirement is behind, it is not 7% behind. Using other airlines profit sharing paints an inaccurate picture. No other airline guarantees a profit every year......so using guaranteed numbers we are 3% behind our peers in retirement.
Our PTO is used for everything, including sick...vacation, and personal time off. But, to it's credit........it also has a monetary value. No other airline has this. If you have over 100 hours accrued, you can sell back PTO at premium.....(150% base). Also, a 35 credit week of vacation only costs the pilot 24.5 hours.
Our premium pay system of anything above 78 hours is 150% isn't too bad. It's potentially worthless on months there is no open time. I for one would give this up for a base rate raise.
Our rigs are in line with the industry, but our per day rig is controlled incorrectly, in my opinion. It averages 5 hours per day, but should be 5 per day minimum.

We absolutely need a union, and the protections with it.....and also the ability to negotiate. But, some of the posters on this site are the typical never happy, always frustrated, constantly bitching pilots every airline has.

Even with all of the shortfalls at JetBlue, I still enjoy going to work.....and am proud to be here and fly here. Just my opinion.

CD

One correction the rig is 5 hours per duty period, not day. That's how you get 3 days worth 10 or 11 hours.

 

[n757st]

i get a little tired of these guys posting stuff on these sites that isn't even fact.....yet. We may not get the 2.2, my sources say we will in fact get it. Although i agree it doesn't make up for a lot of shortfalls, because it's actually a "look-back" comparison. We are 2.2% behind our peers using 2011 numbers. But, if they do bring us up, it brings our a320 compensation to the average of "like" airlines, with similar aircraft. This will also bring up the 190 to within 10% of the bus.
Although our retirement is behind, it is not 7% behind. Using other airlines profit sharing paints an inaccurate picture. No other airline guarantees a profit every year......so using guaranteed numbers we are 3% behind our peers in retirement.
Our pto is used for everything, including sick...vacation, and personal time off. But, to it's credit........it also has a monetary value. No other airline has this. If you have over 100 hours accrued, you can sell back pto at premium.....(150% base). Also, a 35 credit week of vacation only costs the pilot 24.5 hours.
Our premium pay system of anything above 78 hours is 150% isn't too bad. It's potentially worthless on months there is no open time. I for one would give this up for a base rate raise.
Our rigs are in line with the industry, but our per day rig is controlled incorrectly, in my opinion. It averages 5 hours per day, but should be 5 per day minimum.

We absolutely need a union, and the protections with it.....and also the ability to negotiate. But, some of the posters on this site are the typical never happy, always frustrated, constantly bitching pilots every airline has.

Even with all of the shortfalls at jetblue, i still enjoy going to work.....and am proud to be here and fly here. Just my opinion.

Cd

+1.............

 

[linepilot]

I get a little tired of these guys posting stuff on these sites that isn't even fact.....yet. We may not get the 2.2, my sources say we will in fact get it. Although I agree it doesn't make up for a lot of shortfalls, because it's actually a "look-back" comparison. We are 2.2% behind our peers using 2011 numbers. But, if they do bring us up, it brings our A320 compensation to the average of "like" airlines, with similar aircraft. This will also bring up the 190 to within 10% of the Bus.
Although our retirement is behind, it is not 7% behind. Using other airlines profit sharing paints an inaccurate picture. No other airline guarantees a profit every year......so using guaranteed numbers we are 3% behind our peers in retirement.
Our PTO is used for everything, including sick...vacation, and personal time off. But, to it's credit........it also has a monetary value. No other airline has this. If you have over 100 hours accrued, you can sell back PTO at premium.....(150% base). Also, a 35 credit week of vacation only costs the pilot 24.5 hours.
Our premium pay system of anything above 78 hours is 150% isn't too bad. It's potentially worthless on months there is no open time. I for one would give this up for a base rate raise.
Our rigs are in line with the industry, but our per day rig is controlled incorrectly, in my opinion. It averages 5 hours per day, but should be 5 per day minimum.

We absolutely need a union, and the protections with it.....and also the ability to negotiate. But, some of the posters on this site are the typical never happy, always frustrated, constantly bitching pilots every airline has.

Even with all of the shortfalls at JetBlue, I still enjoy going to work.....and am proud to be here and fly here. Just my opinion.

CD

How much further does our health plan set us back? Quite a bit for those of us who need it.

DO NOT come to work at jetblue if your family needs a good health plan.

 

[Lake Alice]

or if you suspect you will need LTD/STD.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I get a little tired of these guys posting stuff on these sites that isn't even fact.....yet. We may not get the 2.2, my sources say we will in fact get it. Although I agree it doesn't make up for a lot of shortfalls, because it's actually a "look-back" comparison. We are 2.2% behind our peers using 2011 numbers. But, if they do bring us up, it brings our A320 compensation to the average of "like" airlines, with similar aircraft. This will also bring up the 190 to within 10% of the Bus.
Although our retirement is behind, it is not 7% behind. Using other airlines profit sharing paints an inaccurate picture. No other airline guarantees a profit every year......so using guaranteed numbers we are 3% behind our peers in retirement.
Our PTO is used for everything, including sick...vacation, and personal time off. But, to it's credit........it also has a monetary value. No other airline has this. If you have over 100 hours accrued, you can sell back PTO at premium.....(150% base). Also, a 35 credit week of vacation only costs the pilot 24.5 hours.
Our premium pay system of anything above 78 hours is 150% isn't too bad. It's potentially worthless on months there is no open time. I for one would give this up for a base rate raise.
Our rigs are in line with the industry, but our per day rig is controlled incorrectly, in my opinion. It averages 5 hours per day, but should be 5 per day minimum.

We absolutely need a union, and the protections with it.....and also the ability to negotiate. But, some of the posters on this site are the typical never happy, always frustrated, constantly bitching pilots every airline has.

Even with all of the shortfalls at JetBlue, I still enjoy going to work.....and am proud to be here and fly here. Just my opinion.

CD

The retirement shortfall IS in fact greater than 3%.

Alaska Airlines is 13.5% plus profit sharing.
Hawaiian's B fund is 17%.
Delta is now 14%.
WN is 9.75% but I'll take that with their wages.

Don't forget that most of these are B funds and require no contribution from the employee. Example, an Alaska Airlines Captain earns $150000. With profit sharing and B contributions this Captain would have received over $30000 in their retirement account last year. I'm not sure if the profit sharing is paid in cash or not. A JetBlue Captain making $150000 would have received $15000 and require the employee to contribute to get the 5% match.

In 2008 the company collaborated with the PCRB to publish a report. That report showed we were 3.5% behind. Obviously the 3.5% does not include additional profit sharing paid out at many of the other carriers. The companies failure to increase our retirement to industry standard has cost me at least $30k plus interest since this report has come out. Plus, if you are out on LTD/STD you receive NO company retirement contributions. At many other carriers you will continue to receive a contribution based on your disability earnings. It's not all bad in Blueville but this is just one of many big issues we have.

 

[curtaindriver]

The retirement shortfall IS in fact greater than 3%.

Alaska Airlines is 13.5% plus profit sharing.
Hawaiian's B fund is 17%.
Delta is now 14%.
WN is 9.75% but I'll take that with their wages.

Don't forget that most of these are B funds and require no contribution from the employee. Example, an Alaska Airlines Captain earns $150000. With profit sharing and B contributions this Captain would have received over $30000 in their retirement account last year. I'm not sure if the profit sharing is paid in cash or not. A JetBlue Captain making $150000 would have received $15000 and require the employee to contribute to get the 5% match.

In 2008 the company collaborated with the PCRB to publish a report. That report showed we were 3.5% behind. Obviously the 3.5% does not include additional profit sharing paid out at many of the other carriers. The companies failure to increase our retirement to industry standard has cost me at least $30k plus interest since this report has come out. Plus, if you are out on LTD/STD you receive NO company retirement contributions. At many other carriers you will continue to receive a contribution based on your disability earnings. It's not all bad in Blueville but this is just one of many big issues we have.

Mostly agree, I would love to see the average retirement plus profit sharing, but am more concerned with just getting our retirement to 13%. Also remember the 2008 report included FedEx and ups, which were "collaborated" away in exchange to exclude spirit frontier and VA.

 

[ajh883s]

Got it. 2.21 % pay increase, retro to Jan 1. Retirement fix still being worked out with committees. Maybe "Summer". Email is out.

 

[curtaindriver]

And my point is made.......stick to the facts guys to help the union drive. We have factual, below industry metrics...i.e: std/ltd....lol, health care, retirement to name a few. But the original thread start was from an ambiguous email sent on fri. So, today in fact, to the company's credit they raised our pay 2.2% retro to Jan 1..........as promised. It was late, it wasnt communicated well, it was threatened to not happen..............but in the end they did the right thing and followed the procedure, just not to the date.



CD