JETBLUE Anti-union tactics

[RiddleEagle18]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.

However, It would be great for ALPA to state public that they were wrong in the matter and that they take the appropriate steps to fix there internal labor issues.

That would be going a long way to establish credibility.

Absolutley false. Any unionized employee group can decertify a union at anytime. Same process as unionizing. Collect cards and petition the NMB.

 

[Flyby1206]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.
However, It would be great for ALPA to state public that they were wrong in the matter and that they take the appropriate steps to fix there internal labor issues.
That would be going a long way to establish credibility.

http://www.unionfacts.com/article/union-member-resources/how-to-decertify-your-union/

Assuming ALPA vote succeeds in April the rules require that the new union is given 1 year before a de-certifying election can happen. If employees can collect 30% signatures then a decertifying election will be held.

I am very interested to see if the company and anti-union crowd will attempt to decertify. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[hyperboy]

United?

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

United?

Are you even aware of all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA? They have been going on for years. FYI

 

[Blue Dude]

United?

Are you even aware of all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA? They have been going on for years. FYI

You just helped make his point. Even with "all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA", they wouldn't think of trading their current representation arrangement for the Direct Relationship. They are sometimes very upset with the results, but they aren't at all interested giving away their representation and negotiation ability by going to an individual contract model. Warts and all, ALPA is still a better deal than what we have. Thanks for your support!

 

[bluesideup340]

Absolutley false. Any unionized employee group can decertify a union at anytime. Same process as unionizing. Collect cards and petition the NMB.

A work group that decertify has to have an alternative bargaining agent no way to ever go back to a non union direct relationship. Regardless, what your stand is on the unionization debate. Fact is, a work group can not take a union for a test drive, so to speak, and return to a non union environment later when the union performance is disappointing.

 

[bluesideup340]

You just helped make his point. Even with "all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA", they wouldn't think of trading their current representation arrangement for the Direct Relationship. They are sometimes very upset with the results, but they aren't at all interested giving away their representation and negotiation ability by going to an individual contract model. Warts and all, ALPA is still a better deal than what we have. Thanks for your support!

My point exactly, once you have a union you are stuck. Sounds like ALPA should engage in a bit more direct relation building with the pilot groups they represent. To be considered the lesser of two evil is really not good enough and should be reason for concern.
Is it ok to dismiss the lawsuits against ALPA or is this not an indication that their process is far from being perfect? Just to recap, ALPA is suit by their current (UAL) and former (TWA) members, and the JetBlue Pilots should be ok with it and not ask questions?

OK I get it, you do not like the direct relationship. But we have to face the fact, ALPA is not a great alternative. Understandably, JetBlue Pilots are pissed about the Health Care changes without pilot input. But where is the outrage about ALPAs collect dues from our 401K without a membership vote? Are you ok with ALPA leaders to impose changes that significantly increases my out of pocket expense without membership ratification?

 

[Blue Dude]

My point exactly, once you have a union you are stuck.

Not my point. My point was, you would have a hard time finding a UAL pilot who would want to drop their union status, not that they wouldn't be able to. Your claim isn't exactly a settled point of law either. Name a single pilot group who wanted to drop their representation status under the RLA and couldn't. Heck, name a single pilot group who wanted to drop their representation status under the RLA, period.

But where is the outrage about ALPAs collect dues from our 401K without a membership vote? Are you ok with ALPA leaders to impose changes that significantly increases my out of pocket expense without membership ratification?

I don't know exactly how that process went forward. My understanding is that they lowered the dues rate and at the same time dropped the exemption from paying dues on 401k contributions. This had the effect of lowering the dues amount slightly for junior pilots and raising it slightly for senior pilots. What's your beef exactly - that the MEC's (which were elected by their pilot groups for just such matters) needed ALPA-wide membership ratification of a relatively minor change to the dues structure? Maybe, but is that really worse than the DR, where our only input is non-binding surveys? Man, that's a stretch.

For what it's worth, I agree that our C&BL needs to include membership ratification of any material contract enactment or change, including any merger or integration offers. This is something we can and hopefully will do ourselves for our own pilot group, and any JetBlue MEC would be bound by it. A runaway MEC which makes career-level decisions without ratification concerns me much more than an MEC who votes on administrative level matters without ratification. There's just no real comparison.

 

[Splert]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.

Liar!

 

[clickclickboom]

If we vote in alpa and get absolutely nothing more than just a way to stop the 36 month plan by our elt then it will be a resounding success.

Think joel doesnt have a plan for a 30 plane jetblue " lite " flying our miles and conecting to our 60 international partners? think again

That would just be the beginning, anyone remember the year we get our insurance cancelled and thrown on the exchanges? is it 2016 or 2017?

 

[HRDiva]

That would just be the beginning, anyone remember the year we get our insurance cancelled and thrown on the exchanges? is it 2016 or 2017?

Then you would get better coverage than what you have now! No other major airline has coverage as horrible as your coverage.i am in HR and design my company's benefits for a living, soi know!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Youtube,
Search confessions of a Union Buster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qajBfEdzoE&sns=em

Saw most of the tactics at SKYW, during multiple drives. Search Ford and Harrisson, then check the 10Qs.

 

[Splert]

A work group that decertify has to have an alternative bargaining agent no way to ever go back to a non union direct relationship. Regardless, what your stand is on the unionization debate. Fact is, a work group can not take a union for a test drive, so to speak, and return to a non union environment later when the union performance is disappointing.

Collect cards for Dave Barger (an individual) to represent jetblue pilots and when 50% plus 1 vote for "no representation" then ALPA is decertified and we are back to the DR.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

For good reason. That place is toxic. I'm a yes vote, but I do not like the jerks on bluepilots. Thankfully I've either never run into one in real life, or their internet hubris doesn't extend to the real world.

I'm betting it's the latter.

Oh, don't bet on it... just well hidden during "normal operations". Put a little pressure on and the floodgates open.

That being said, I used to love flying with one of the nuttiest of the bluepilots.com messiahs. Great dude, but there was always a point where our conversation took a wrong turn and I had to point out to him that whatever he just said could be looked upon as grounds for medical revocation for mental health reasons.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Oh, don't bet on it... just well hidden during "normal operations". Put a little pressure on and the floodgates open.

That being said, I used to love flying with one of the nuttiest of the bluepilots.com messiahs. Great dude, but there was always a point where our conversation took a wrong turn and I had to point out to him that whatever he just said could be looked upon as grounds for medical revocation for mental health reasons.

Clayton...?

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Clayton...?

Negative - Really I was speaking figuratively about guys who's viewpoints on airline politics are so extreme that they stretch the bounds of sanity.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Negative - Really I was speaking figuratively about guys who's viewpoints on airline politics are so extreme that they stretch the bounds of sanity.

Plenty of guys here do fit that description....!

 

[agonyairfo]

Just my 2 cents... Why are any actions taken by management called "anti-union?" i.e., call-ins, emails, glossy comparison guides, etc. I mean Dave Barger plainly says "vote no." So in a sense it is all "anti-union." But it's spun as so sinister.
It could be construed to be his job to be anti-union and that doesn't in itself make it a wrong position. And so what if they use a 3rd party PR company in that process?

This is a campaign. There are 2 sides. If management is working a full court press then the organizing committee is doing it too AND with 7 players on the court. And they too are using 3rd party (ALPA) resources.
I also read the emails cranked out by bluetruthers every day. Nothing the company puts out matches the relentlessness or emotion in these emails. So I think it could rightly be called propaganda.

So we have the company putting out "facts" (granted shaded to their side) and the OC putting out emotion. The company wins in my view.

At this point I'm only commenting on both sides success at presenting their side which is only a subset of whether or not we need representation.

 

[Fins Up]

Just my 2 cents... Why are any actions taken by management called "anti-union?" i.e., call-ins, emails, glossy comparison guides, etc. I mean Dave Barger plainly says "vote no." So in a sense it is all "anti-union." But it's spun as so sinister.
It could be construed to be his job to be anti-union and that doesn't in itself make it a wrong position. And so what if they use a 3rd party PR company in that process?

This is a campaign. There are 2 sides. If management is working a full court press then the organizing committee is doing it too AND with 7 players on the court. And they too are using 3rd party (ALPA) resources.
I also read the emails cranked out by bluetruthers every day. Nothing the company puts out matches the relentlessness or emotion in these emails. So I think it could rightly be called propaganda.

So we have the company putting out "facts" (granted shaded to their side) and the OC putting out emotion. The company wins in my view.

At this point I'm only commenting on both sides success at presenting their side which is only a subset of whether or not we need representation.

Well therein lies a huge problem. The company puts out half-truths and more spin than a sewing machine. I understand that the tone of the bluetruth emails is off-putting to some, but you've got the "facts" thing backwards. The company is not to be trusted because time and time again the "facts" they put out our proven to be wrong or intentionally deceptive.

Example: VPFLOPS says in a self-congratulatory email, "We fixed the 13% retirement gap." What they really did was rename profit-sharing "retirement", add in your 5% match, and add 3%. The only thing new is the 3%. And the company won't add its 5% until you put yours in first. They're putting two labels on the same pot of money.

Example: VPFLOPS says in another email that the rumors of the huge cost advantage jetblue enjoys is false and that the advantage is shrinking. The "rumor" (actually, the truth) is that the pilot cost advantage - how much work they get out of us for how much the pilot compensation budget is - is quite true. We are one of the most efficient major airline pilot groups in the country.

Example: System chief pilot says that we would be fine in SLI in the event of M/A. William Wilder, the lawyer for the PVC who has specialized in labor law for over 20 years says that is completely wrong and our protections are very weak. Which of those two people is the authority in labor law?

I could go on but this post would get way too long. Whether or not you like the tone of the bluetruth emails, they contain the facts. There is a reason every major airline pilot group is unionized. Like it or not, that's just the way the industry operates.

Please vote YES.

 

[pilot772]

Just my 2 cents... Why are any actions taken by management called "anti-union?" i.e., call-ins, emails, glossy comparison guides, etc. I mean Dave Barger plainly says "vote no." So in a sense it is all "anti-union." But it's spun as so sinister.
It could be construed to be his job to be anti-union and that doesn't in itself make it a wrong position. And so what if they use a 3rd party PR company in that process?

This is a campaign. There are 2 sides. If management is working a full court press then the organizing committee is doing it too AND with 7 players on the court. And they too are using 3rd party (ALPA) resources.
I also read the emails cranked out by bluetruthers every day. Nothing the company puts out matches the relentlessness or emotion in these emails. So I think it could rightly be called propaganda.

So we have the company putting out "facts" (granted shaded to their side) and the OC putting out emotion. The company wins in my view.

At this point I'm only commenting on both sides success at presenting their side which is only a subset of whether or not we need representation.

serious question how long have you been here? If you've been here more then a year and think what the company is putting out is factual then you've had your head in the sand. Sort of like when they meet with the PVC and they disagree on 99 items but agree on one. The company then puts out an email stating the pvc and company agree on said issue.

quite contrarian

 

[B6Busdriver]

Just my 2 cents... Why are any actions taken by management called "anti-union?" i.e., call-ins, emails, glossy comparison guides, etc. I mean Dave Barger plainly says "vote no." So in a sense it is all "anti-union." But it's spun as so sinister.
It could be construed to be his job to be anti-union and that doesn't in itself make it a wrong position. And so what if they use a 3rd party PR company in that process?

This is a campaign. There are 2 sides. If management is working a full court press then the organizing committee is doing it too AND with 7 players on the court. And they too are using 3rd party (ALPA) resources.
I also read the emails cranked out by bluetruthers every day. Nothing the company puts out matches the relentlessness or emotion in these emails. So I think it could rightly be called propaganda.

So we have the company putting out "facts" (granted shaded to their side) and the OC putting out emotion. The company wins in my view.

At this point I'm only commenting on both sides success at presenting their side which is only a subset of whether or not we need representation.

It's sinister because much of it is not true. The lies have been chronicled and talked about on various websites ad nauseam. It really concerns me that you haven't done your own research to find out what the facts are. We are behind in pay and benefits in almost every category. This election is about representation, you have none now, as in zero. Read the PVC emails, collaboration means being in the room when the company dictates policy. I've seen it first hand....