JETBLUE Anti-union tactics

[B6Driver]

Both sides are guilty of accentuating their personal positives or out right distortion of the facts to win your vote. My mind is made up at this point and I'm certain this hard push from either side is just a distraction for us all.

 

[StarChecker]

I believe with ALPA we will lose the option of selling back our PTO at premium.

You start the sentence with "I believe...."


Do us all a favor....get back to us when you have data to support your hypothesis. An untested hypothesis is not a basis to make a decision.



Observe....

"I believe with ALPA we will be forced to amputate our left arms...."

"Any data to back that up?"

"Nope....it's what I believe."


Your concern is legitimate. It's something you should certainly make known to our representatives. I hope they will be our newly minted ALPA Negotiating Committee rather than our hard-working but doomed-to-fail company-sponsored committees.

Vote for a voice. It's something you don't have now. Come to LSC with me next week for 3 days of meetings. You can see for yourself.

 

[B6Driver]

This is still an opinion board. If you don't like some one's opinion, skip to the next one.

 

[StarChecker]

This is still an opinion board. If you don't like some one's opinion, skip to the next one.

I said....

"Your concern is legitimate."

What part of that is "not liking his opinion"?

I just want people to reason their way to a decision....not opine.

 

[Splert]

My biggest concern with ALPA coming on property is a potential for a $37,611.00 pay cut!

I believe with ALPA we will lose the option of selling back our PTO at premium. Currently I sell 10 hours a month, or 10 x 1.5 = 15 hrs at base rate, which works out to be:

$189.00 x 15 = $2835.00 per month, which comes to $34,020.00 per year! Add that to the projected $3591.00 in ALPA dues and you get $37,611.00!!

That'll buy a lot of horse feed want it, Fins Up!

Yes I know we could also lose this option under the current system. I just point this out as I never hear any of the pro union folks talk about what they are willing to give up to get the first CBA.

The company said this benefits cost about $2.7 million per year.

With the new DP and lack of vacation that dollar amount will rise significantly over the next 3 years and will be labeled by the company as too rich and out of line with peers and it will be cut.

Of course it will be you that decided to give it up because you can sign the new PEA or not and keep the ability to sell PTO at premium.

Just like the 78 hour trigger and the new PEA it was your decision.

But don't fool yourself. Not than many pilots use this benefit, they use SICKA to take Vacations and days off, and that is the only reason it was left in the current PEA.

Your benefit is on the DR chopping block as more and more are forced to lose or sell PTO they could not use because we have very little allocated vacation and the threat of the DP.

 

[Blue Dude]

I believe with ALPA we will lose the option of selling back our PTO at premium.

This is a legitimate concern, but not in the way you think. I think this would be the logical next step in the next PEA (tentatively making an appearance in late 2016). They really only want to pay premium for special assignments like RSA - when they really need you to fill in to rescue the operation - not for routine sellbacks. They couldn't get that done in this version since they needed to dangle some relief for the loss of the premium trigger, but you can bet it will be on the chopping block next time. They are more than happy to take things away in stages, just so you don't hop out of the pot.

Sellback at premium might indeed not make it into the first CBA, but I am confident that if it doesn't it'll be in exchange for something else truly worthwhile so that you may not even miss it, and we'll all have influence on what that looks like. At the very least, the surveys will come out *before* the language is negotiated instead of it being merely a "how can we do better" exit poll.

There are some things I'd not like to lose as well, but I'm convinced that I'm more likely to retain them with the negotiating process and - gasp - even improve our lot than under the slow deterioration of the DR. Not wanting to lose something is ultimately a defensive strategy doomed to fail, far removed from playing to win something. I'm playing to win back what's already been taken and more besides. Not because I'm greedy, but because this isn't the scrappy little startup JetBlue still tries to pretend it is, and frankly because I'm worth it. We bring more value to this airline than most anyone else here, and because of our work rules more than our peers bring to their airlines. And I want to be compensated for that instead of drained by email and "collaboration".

 

[Fins Up]

The job protection language in the PPA is very weak - more holes than swiss cheese. This was pointed out to our management and better language was offered up. We need language to ensure total merging of the operations in the event of M/A. The company had the opportunity to make this happen - to give us a little piece of mind - to show they give a dam about our careers. They chose not to act. I don't see how to interpret their inaction any other way besides a total indifference to our needs. This is one of the big reasons I am voting yes. No contract is ironclad in this industry, but our management is choosing not to even try.

 

[BeachBummer]

This is still an opinion board. If you don't like some one's opinion, skip to the next one.

Hello!

Pot meet kettle....

You should maybe take your own advise.

 

[$$$4nothin]

My biggest concern with ALPA coming on property is a potential for a $37,611.00 pay cut!

I believe with ALPA we will lose the option of selling back our PTO at premium. Currently I sell 10 hours a month, or 10 x 1.5 = 15 hrs at base rate, which works out to be:

$189.00 x 15 = $2835.00 per month, which comes to $34,020.00 per year! Add that to the projected $3591.00 in ALPA dues and you get $37,611.00!!

That'll buy a lot of horse feed want it, Fins Up!

Yes I know we could also lose this option under the current system. I just point this out as I never hear any of the pro union folks talk about what they are willing to give up to get the first CBA.

We will get to your math in a minute. However lets say you could sell every second of PTO you make back. I sell almost all of mine back as well. Not having ALPA on property cost you way more than $37,611 last year... It is possible, but very hard to believe a guy your age doesn't take a bid for vacation, doesn't get sick a single day all year, doesn't have a wife or kid get sick, or generally doesn't need a day off to fix an AC system etc etc.... Now do yourself a favor. Go ask an AK, LUV, DL, UN top of the payscale captain what there profit sharing check was last year. Between one week vacation and a real pilots profit sharing we are back to a break even point for you. Now lets add in Health care, Retirement, number of days off, DP, changes to work rules in email etc etc and I promise you having the DR over ALPA cost you way more than $37,611 lat year. Btw that $34,000 really only put $21,000 in your pocket because $13,000 was taxes. The $3591 is tax deductible btw. So your math is off, you have no clue if you will lose PTO sell back, it cost you more to keep the DR, you are screwing your brothers. Do you need any more factual reasons to vote "YES" or are you going to vote with your feelings again. I would think a person your age would be wiser than your post suggests.

 

[Splert]

At ALPA you can sell PTO back. For instance, one carrier can sell back at Vacation at 3.25 a day at a higher base rate than bluejet and it is counted as Regular Earnings which means it counts towards the Retirement and Profit Sharing (at bluejet is counts toward 5 of the 13%).

Bottom line between the 2 systems is less than $525.

Booo!

 

[Splert]

Chuck are you LSC based? I know all the CP and project pilots already have unlimited schedule flexibility and sell PTO as a bonus instead of using it to manage days off with family.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Chuck are you LSC based? I know all the CP and project pilots already have unlimited schedule flexibility and sell PTO as a bonus instead of using it to manage days off with family.

I think "unlimited schedule flexibility" is a bit exaggerated.

 

[Splert]

Limited by PTO balance or not?

Unlimited.

We have limited access= PTO balance, FLiCA windows need to keep a moderate balance for sick time etc.

CP, PJP do not have to use the bid process for vacation/days. Unlimited flexibility. They don't have FLiCA mins for days off.

CP/Project pilots do not have to call in sick for their 4 day foot print in LSC to go to the dentist. They just come in later in the day or the next day. Unlimited.

You have zero idea the club that project pilots are in.

That is why NO ONE VOLUNTARILY LEAVES these position, EVER!!!

My favorite is scheduling meeting up to the day before Christmas Eve and the company drops the committee members 4 day that operates over Christmas. You have to be the right committee member, though.

Unlimited.

The list goes on and on and on and on!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Limited by PTO balance or not?

Unlimited.

We have limited access= PTO balance, FLiCA windows need to keep a moderate balance for sick time etc.

CP, PJP do not have to use the bid process for vacation/days. Unlimited flexibility. They don't have FLiCA mins for days off.

CP/Project pilots do not have to call in sick for their 4 day foot print in LSC to go to the dentist. They just come in later in the day or the next day. Unlimited.

You have zero idea the club that project pilots are in.

That is why NO ONE VOLUNTARILY LEAVES these position, EVER!!!

My favorite is scheduling meeting up to the day before Christmas Eve and the company drops the committee members 4 day that operates over Christmas. You have to be the right committee member, though.

Unlimited.

The list goes on and on and on and on!

Sigh... You're right Splert. I forgot that you know everything. There's a reason you're on my ignore list, and will remain there.

Less limited that a line pilot is not the same as unlimited. I've been an office guy before. There are limits. Lots of them. There are benefits to being in the office, and there are benefits to being on line. Generally...the line is better, in my opinion. I worked in Safety to make a difference, not because the schedule was better, or even the pay for that matter.

The biggest downside to office work is the constant communication, and expectation that you're available 24/7. There's never any downtime. When your flight is over, you can turn your phone off and forget about work for a few days. For an office guy, that isn't the case. Ever. Even on vacation. It gets REALLY old.

My point isn't that line is better or office is better, but when you suggest that office guys don't have limits or that it's all roses, that's BS, and it shows how little you know and understand about how things work.

 

[$$$4nothin]

The biggest downside to office work is the constant communication, and expectation that you're available 24/7. There's never any downtime. When your flight is over, you can turn your phone off and forget about work for a few days. For an office guy, that isn't the case. Ever. Even on vacation. It gets REALLY old.


My phone in no way works let alone is on during vacation. If your phone works during vacation you should take a better vacation.