Jetblue 5 year contract

[Capn Mike]

RJ...i want to know why you think re applying for a job after 5 years to allow a FO to upgrade is bad...after 5 years the CA has had a good run making some awesome cash...now it is the FO's turn...either re apply and go back to FO seat or find another job. this is the major reason morale is high at jetblue and nowhere else! it is great for the company too...it saves LOTS of money and that is good job security for the pilots.

Stiring the pot.

 

[Longhorn]

ASA Captain.
They would treat is exactly the same as your airline. They would do an investigation, get to the bottom of what happen. Read any reports filed and if it was serious enough more than likely send you to MCO for additional training. In the example you gave, they would say " is everyone ok? We'll look over the report and send an email to the pilots as a heads up about the situation, good job taking care of the plane and the customers and stop by anytime with any concerns...want to grab some coffee?" literally, that’s how confrontational it would be!! Unless you really screw up ex. fly drunk, punch the CP, burn down the building, jetBlue will protect you like their own. We are all on the same team and not out to hurt or dismantle any jobs. Its the oddest thing, they actually want you to be happy, and will work WITH you. Like I said, its not perfect but no job is. As an example, I went through a divorce where my wife cleaned me out the 1st week in ground school. The company treated me like I had been there from day 1. I was left with 27 dollars in my bank account. They went and offered a 500-1000 dollar pre-paid visa card to get me though training. They said I could pay it back when I could after training. This was not only from the company but from some of the exec's personal finances. The heads of training were going to spend their money to help me out. Because if that I feel like I made the right decision in coming here. I ended up having family help in the end but their gesture is something that I will never forget....

 

[furloughed dude]

Deleted

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128....
Hey, you know me. If you wanted the information on the 5 year contract you could have emailed me or pm'd me. I know most of the guys that commute from MSP and DTW and they would all be happy to explain it. I think that maybe they are not quick to answer due to the fact that we get interrogated by guys on the jumpseat 95% of the time, and usually its by guys who have no idea what they are talking about since they base all their info off this website. JB is much better than PCL ever was. I do not regret the jump at all and would encourage anyone there to put their stuff in here. I would even help 99% of the guys there since I know most of them. For the last time, the 5 year contract is a non issue. It is simply a contract of work rules that protects both sides. It states what they can and cant do and vise versa. Spells out pay, time off, senority, upgrade, etc etc. It covers everything that the alpo contract would cover. Yes, there are some issues that can be worked on like the scheduling guide, although I get on average 15-17 days off with 85 hours so I am not bitching too much about it. When was the last time you got that at pcl as a middle of pack fo? I am not upset with you but you know that if you want info, or even a peek at the contract you could have just contacted me.

Sully

Longhorn, thanks for the straight answers. Let me ask you this, however: what do you think the purpose of this contract is? Do you really believe that management doesn't have any ulterior motives in having each individual pilot sign a 5-year contract? Those contracts could easily be used to get rid of pilots that try to start a union drive. It's easy to "keep someone in line" when they are afraid of the consequences because of a 5-year contract.

 

[Eagleflip]

PCL--the 5 year contract is in place to enforce certain rules as well as provide substantial protections to the pilot in question. As for why it is 5 years in duration vice 10, 20 or 50, I think the company has to set a realistic time frame for the provisions within.

A reasonable question comes to mind: how long does the average union-negotiated contract valid for? Aren't they valid for 4 to 7 years? Aren't they ammendable at will?

Your real question is reasonable, however. Would JetBlue use the 5 year contract to rid itself of trouble makers. In my estimation--and experience--they would not do so, and have not done so. Certainly, we have a few folks who are difficult to work with--they are still on the property despite their "shortfalls." I do not know of anyone who has truly pushed for a union, but I'd bet we have had someone do so--and we still have everybody on board the company (with the exception of those who retired or fired for conspicuous issues, none that had to do with this).

And this rationale does not even begin to address the huge training costs associated with firing a well trained Captain and replacing him. Further, what exactly do you think the pilot group would do IF someone were fired purely for their opinions? Come on! Your logic is not so logical.

So, does that answer your question?

 

[Longhorn]

I honestly do not think there is any ulterior motive to the contract. First, its illegal to fire someone or threaten an employee that tries to organize. That would go against everything that the company was founded on. If they fired a pilot at the 5 year mark whereas the situation was even the slightest bit questionable, the pilots here would be in a uproar. I think the whole company would be in an uproar. That would guarantee a union for sure. The ramp and customer service folks are very supportive of the pilots and FA's and vice-versa. We would all move to unionize if the company betrayed us outright. At the same time, please remember that most of this company is not new to unions. We have a lot of TWA and USAIR guys that really were taken without lube and I don’t think they are up for another round. The USAir pilots here were part of a very strong alpa union at one time. If after all they have been through they thought they were being betrayed, they would not sit there and take it. I believe the company knows that, and because of that come up with a contract that helps everyone. It is not so management friendly that the pilots feel like we are getting screwed, and at the same time, it’s not so pilot heavy that management feels the need take from a group of "greedy" pilots. It does have some points that need to be looked at, like the 190 rates. Everyone knows the rates are not great. But I believe that most would rather have rates that are a bit low and can raised after justifying it financially rather than having to come to the pilot group and say ..um guys, yea, we are going to have to ask for a cut because the 190 rates are too high and we are not making money on the AC. That would kill employee moral on all levels. I think we will see a raise in the not so distant future but only when the price of oil comes down and stays down a bit and the plane proves itself. I do think we will see a swapa style union down the road.. way down the road but only as a communication medium between a large pilot group and management. Hopefully, if that happens, it will all be done together with nothing with the companies and pilots best interest's in mind. I am sure it will be. As for the overall pay here, since it seems to be that we are accepting sub-standard pay rates in this industry, I made a little over 64K my first year without having to work to hard.
Take Care.
Sully

 

[Longhorn]

Yea, what eaglefip said as well..

Thanks EF

 

[wndshr]

Exactly!

Stiring the pot.

please don't blow my cover! i hope i am not too obvious

this is FUN!

 

[wndshr]

Typical. I've asked a couple of JetBlue jumpseaters the same questions, and they always refuse to answer in a straightforward manner. Take a look at other JetBlue threads on this board. Anytime a JetBlue pilot says anything remotely pessimistic about the company, a hoard of JBlue pilots pile on telling them that "These things don't belong on a public board!" What exactly are the Blue-aid-drinking cultists trying to hide?

There is nothing the "blue aid drinking cultist are trying to hide" plain and simple...they have the most comprehensive and secure contract available in the industry today. the pay may not be the best, but who cares...making money for the company is WAY more important don't you think? after all...without a company to work for...you have nothing! back to flying the 'lil jets again! try tellin' hot chicks you are a pilot...then when they find out you fly 'lil jets they look at you like you just passed gas or something! BUT...tell them you are a 150 seat airbus pilot...GAME OVER!

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Typical. I've asked a couple of JetBlue jumpseaters the same questions, and they always refuse to answer in a straightforward manner. Take a look at other JetBlue threads on this board. Anytime a JetBlue pilot says anything remotely pessimistic about the company, a hoard of JBlue pilots pile on telling them that "These things don't belong on a public board!" What exactly are the Blue-aid-drinking cultists trying to hide?

We're trying to hide that we don't pay for our airplanes, we own our own oil wells so we don't pay for jet fuel, we all fly for no pay because it's a priviledge to fly an Airbus, and the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the ghost of Jim Morrison are alive and well and fly JetBlue regularly. So there, it's out in the open.