Jetblue 5 year contract

[ASA Captain]

A reasonable question comes to mind: how long does the average union-negotiated contract valid for? Aren't they valid for 4 to 7 years? Aren't they ammendable at will?

Airline contracts do not expire, they become amendable. When it is amendable, both parties enter negotiations, but must maintain the status quo until a new agreement is reached or the National Mediation Board releases them from negotiations. See... Railway Labor Act.

The company alone, cannot, at will, change the contract. Although if you ask any of my ASA brothers and sisters, they might argue ASA has done just that.:angryfire

 

[banger]

Airline contracts do not expire, they become amendable. When it is amendable, both parties enter negotiations, but must maintain the status quo until a new agreement is reached or the National Mediation Board releases them from negotiations. See... Railway Labor Act.

The company alone, cannot, at will, change the contract. Although if you ask any of my ASA brothers and sisters, they might argue ASA has done just that.:angryfire

Yea, well tell that to us furloughed Delta guys. Our contract had a "no furlough" clause that was "air tight". Didn't last to long now did it.

 

[Beech D45]

I hear you get your minimum guarantee for the duration of the contract if you're furloughed. Sounds like a pretty good deal considering what's been happening in the industry over the last 5 years.

The value of this is zero. If Jb is going to furlough a pilot and still pay such a salary, then it is in jB's interest to require the employee to show for work. A severence package up to five years?

The difference between the Jb contract and an RLA negotiated contract is Jb can change the terms of the contract....at will. While most of the RLA contracts as of late have been severly watered down, they have been done so via negotiations.

Consider this.... if Jb found itself in financial difficulty, how would Dave and David address the pilot contract? Can an airline operating in the red, realistically pay an employee not to work?

The Jb contract sounds fine, just as long as jB is doing well. IF jB does bad then all bets are off. jB isn't any more immune than the others...

 

[A350]

So basically, no matter what, a contract can be changed or watered down.......I would rather my management unilaterally change contract rules without my consent than to give away the hard work of my brothers and sisters.

JB can change the contract.....but in order for it to be in effect, WE have to individually sign it. So my fate is in my hands, not some pilot who wears a suit and wants to wipe his butt in the executive suite and eats steak dinners on my dime.

What can we do? About as much as the thousands of ALPA pilots who have been on the receiving end of the shaft since 9/11. And I get to keep my 1.95%.

A350

 

[Beech D45]

So basically, no matter what, a contract can be changed or watered down.......I would rather my management unilaterally change contract rules without my consent than to give away the hard work of my brothers and sisters.

JB can change the contract.....but in order for it to be in effect, WE have to individually sign it. So my fate is in my hands, not some pilot who wears a suit and wants to wipe his butt in the executive suite and eats steak dinners on my dime.

What can we do? About as much as the thousands of ALPA pilots who have been on the receiving end of the shaft since 9/11. And I get to keep my 1.95%.

A350

Well this is it in a nut shell......

Ignorance and arrogance. Chopped up and served up on a nice black and white platter.....

Man, if I lived in your world, I guess I'd have to look at it this way too....

You sound like a defendant saying your better off with the DA's office..... blaming others for not making your life better....


(now, the trick is..on your part..... can you respond without canned common Anti ALPA talking points (including National Salaries) and no I'm not saying God and ALPA are related....)

I think the issue is.... no one knows what or how jB will respond to financial hardship. The trick is for them, like SWA, to stay out financial difficulty. But if they don't then good luck, because you will have as much influence negotiating terms as did Munro

IOW, you would rather have terms dicated to you than be a player at the table. (or at least represented.....) You are so pissed at unions...the equivlient is getting yourself in a civil suit and not hiring a lawyer cause you hate lawyers.... You're so fustrated and deflated you have resigned yourself to giving up and letting someone else "take care" of you.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

D45, It's really good of you to be so concerned about the way we do business. What you don't know and problably won't believe is that we do have a voice in our agreement. We also have faith in our mgmt. to do the right thing. Unlike the other carriers' mgmt., who hide behind BK proceedings to take from the pilot group all in while fattening their own wallets, our mgmt. has a very vested interest in keeping on good terms with us. They TRUST us to do the right thing. And granted, we may have some internal strife from time to time, but show me a family who doesn't.

BTW, your reference in your 4th para. ( You sound like..... ) is way inappropriate and has no business on the Board. Shame on you!

 

[Beech D45]

D45, It's really good of you to be so concerned about the way we do business. What you don't know and problably won't believe is that we do have a voice in our agreement. We also have faith in our mgmt. to do the right thing. Unlike the other carriers' mgmt., who hide behind BK proceedings to take from the pilot group all in while fattening their own wallets, our mgmt. has a very vested interest in keeping on good terms with us. They TRUST us to do the right thing. And granted, we may have some internal strife from time to time, but show me a family who doesn't.

BTW, your reference in your 4th para. ( You sound like..... ) is way inappropriate and has no business on the Board. Shame on you!

Edited for your taste.

In what way do you have a voice?

So you are saying that IF jB hit tough times and was losing money that your faith and trust in management (Dave and David) would remain.

 

[Skank]

FlyAuburn,

Unable to reproduce now ... and no, you need help. You never sign any contract as a condition of employment ... and yes, the bringing the industry down batan has been handed to those who have to re-apply for their job and get bumped back to F/O after five years... not at SWA, nor any other airline I can think of.

Someone needs to hit you between the eyes and knock some sense in ya.

RJ

You sure are gullible. Keep going, you may set a new record. Your outrage at something that doesn't exist is quite humorous.

 

[wndshr]

Edited for your taste.

In what way do you have a voice?

So you are saying that IF jB hit tough times and was losing money that your faith and trust in management (Dave and David) would remain.

ABSOLUTELY! part of the 5 year agreement has a statement of trust in it too! "....in case of dreaded financial difficulties we will do our best for the company and its employees. we promise not to take advantage of our employees or creditors. we ask that you agree to all of our business decisions and trust that they are all done for the benefit of the company and its employees."

 

[Beech D45]

ABSOLUTELY! part of the 5 year agreement has a statement of trust in it too! "....in case of dreaded financial difficulties we will do our best for the company and its employees. we promise not to take advantage of our employees or creditors. we ask that you agree to all of our business decisions and trust that they are all done for the benefit of the company and its employees."

You didn't answer how you have a voice...

Not sure I see the difference between this employee policy doc and an agreement. Except that B6 management can change the policy 'at will' at any time.

i.e here is an updated copy of your five year agreement. Sign and return. Your promtness and cooperation is appreciated. -D&D

The encompassing point is tough financial times. To say that a JB pilot is better off in tough financial times than any other non B6 pilot is rediculous...

What I don't get is SWA has provided the blue print on sucess. According to the book the SWA Way, Herb, Colleen and now Gary make thier unions thier partners. But B6 seems to cut the corner on this and circumvent..... Why?


Another point is it appears that B6 pilots do alot more defending than LUV pilots.


Two pilots....

One has finished IOE at B6 and finally hears from SWA and is offered a LUV job. Stay or Go?

Another has finished IOE at LUV and is offered a B6 job? Stay or go?