Jet Blue Productivity Advantage

[Intruder One]

To NYRANGER

You are correct.....what happens if there is a race to the bottom,where does it stop or does mangement say lets see how low we can go.Not long ago ther was a comparision in the local paper about JB and United,no wonder JB is making money.The only ones making a decent wage are the pilots,rampers.FA's and gate agents are commuter wages.This will catch up with them sooner or later...and without happy service employees you have no airline.

 

[NYRANGERS]

So exactly what industry-leading precedent did PSA set while you were working there?

Respectfully,

JayDub

?????????????????????????

I don't understand what you mean? PSA was a great place for me to advance my career. I never planed on staying at PSA for the rest of my career.

 

[JayDub]

First off, let me say congratulations Albie!!! That's outstanding news. You know, they finally figured out what causes that.

NY Rangers, PSA didn't exactly break any records when it came to their contract, true. But salary and pay rate are always changing, it's the nature of the business. The point of my comment was that PSA was one of the first to jump on the PFT band wagon, and one of the last airlines to drop this practice.

I know several people that used PFT to get on at their first airline, and some I even consider close friends. That pretty much is their business. However, none of these people get on message boards and criticize other people for bringing down pay rates at their respective airlines. I don't know (or care) if you paid for your training at PSA, but as an airline they sure endorsed the practice. It just bugs me you seem to jump on every jetBlue thread of late to tell us that we, as an airline, are bringing down pay rates for the entire industry. Seems pretty gutsy for you to throw stones at jetBlue, having come from PSA.

You seem to be all worried about what I make, while USAirways is paying people hired in 1987 less than I make. I think you are misplacing your frustrations.

JayDub

 

[Intruder One]

To Jay Dub:

Not as a F/O you couldn't,only because you can go to the left seat so quick.If it were anywhere else it would be years before you would see the left seat, maybe never.One day the hiring will slow down or stop and then they will be like everyone else,nothing goes on forever. But as you are probably like most pilots the ones behind me are of no concern,just be thankful you were hired in the beginning.Start ups don't come along very often but when they do it's great for the first ones hired,but it's not a realistic comparsion to airlines that have been around 30 or 40+ years.

 

[Race Pilot]

CONGRATULATIONS ALBIE!!

Nice to see great things like that happen to people who do a great job offering constructive comments. Hope you have the plane you want by the time she's ready to solo.

Bill

 

[FedEx2003plz]

Washington Post

Here's what James K. Glassman had to say in the business section of today's "Post."

• JetBlue Airways (JBLU). Since its inception in December 1995, the Raymond James & Associates list of 10 best picks for the year ahead has returned an annual average of 47 percent, compared with just 9 percent for the S&P, an index it thoroughly whipped in each of the seven years. That's a fantastic record, and each year I pay close attention to the choices. The new list, just out last week, includes my favorite initial public offering of 2001: JetBlue Airways, which has just about everything going for it -- strong balance sheet, low costs, new fleet of planes, excellent routes, highly productive nonunion workforce, good cash flow, access to capital markets to fund its growth, demoralized competitors teetering on bankruptcy and customers (like me) who love the product. In a commodity business, JetBlue stands out for its use of technology and its great service (for example, live TV at each seat and a wonderful Web site for booking flights). Remember, however, that JetBlue is still small (market cap, $1.8 billion; revenue, $624 million) and the airline industry is highly volatile and at the mercy of oil prices and economic cycles. JetBlue's price has come back to reality after soaring to $55 shortly after the IPO, and, at $38 a share on Thursday, the stock's P/E (price to earnings) ratio, based on Raymond James's projections for 2003 profits, is 22 -- absurdly tame for a company that, if analyst Jim Parker is correct, could double its earnings in each of the next three years.

 

[Eagleflip]

Congratulations, Albie! I suppose all those stories about pulling Gz and having girls were actually true in your case.

To all, is the job thing about making as much money as possible or having a reasonable income while keeping a high level of job satisfaction? I'm not minimalizing the numerous issues that we've touched on this thread, but it seems to me that my overall happiness with JB nicely counterbalances the overall compensation issue.

None of us have crystal balls (!), so I figure we'll know if we made the right choice at age 60. As for me, I'm confident I will be a happy man with a happy family.

And maybe my son will marry Albie's daughter to boot...

 

[HA25]

congrats too albie....

on the other issue.... I think I've said enough.... Good luck to you JB pilots and lets hope that you all continue to work towards restoring this profession to its former levels.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NY Rangers, PSA didn't exactly break any records when it came to their contract, true. But salary and pay rate are always changing, it's the nature of the business. The point of my comment was that PSA was one of the first to jump on the PFT band wagon, and one of the last airlines to drop this practice.

I
JayDub

PSA wasn't pay for training when I was hired in 98'. I am still not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[Smoking Man]

PSA was one of the first to drop PFT, when PSA started getting the dorks in 95 the PFT was droped. I know the J-ball pilots were PFT, we operated EMB-120's for a short period of time, (not sure if any PFT occured during that time). No one has PFT on the Dornier.

 

[Draginass]

Don't forget that compensation is not only wages, it's also pension benefits which are a hefty part. What kind of pension does JB have?

Also, maybe some JB guys can confirm or deny, is JB deferring some payments to Airbus? Also, I believe they have not yet seen the full brunt of heavy maintenence costs.

While JB is successful right now in the kind of economy that favors it and early in the life of its equipment, but, it's really too early to tell how they'll do in the long run.

 

[trainerjet]

Also, maybe some JB guys can confirm or deny, is JB deferring some payments to Airbus?

Jeff G has been on this board denying that claim over and over and over. I'm sure he wouldn't mind denying it for the hundreth time. Or you could save him the trouble by searching his posts and reading what he has to say on this matter.

For example....here is a quote from a post he made on 12/4

"I don't often start a fight. Heck, much of the time I'm just making posters defend conventional wisdom with facts rather than just propagate more junk. How many times have you heard that JetBlue doesn't pay for aircraft, for instance? It's everywhere. On the net, on the radio (I actually was challenged on clearance delivery once by another aircraft), in the terminal, from jumpseaters. It's difficult being a target of this kind of scorn. "Y'know, you're only making money because you don't pay for your planes." If I never hear that again, it'll be too soon."

 

[A4Forever]

For what it's worth: When a new carrier starts up, the Company sets the initial wages. You wanta fly for me? Ok, we're gonna pay captains X$ and F/Os Y$. If you want the job, you take the pay. Over a period of years, in UALs case 70+, contracts become ammendable. Pilots seek and are most often able to obtain an increase in pay. JB wages are certainly lower because they were set by management on day one. Will they rise when a contract is negotiated? Probably. Having said that, the trend might be for stagnant or declining wages due to the economy, law of supply and demand or other mitigating factors. Now is not the best time to be negotiating for a pay increase. UAL pilots, under a recovery plan, might well be looking at pay cuts of 25 to 30%. If this comes to pass, what will happen at DAL, NWA, AA ect? My guess is that it will have a far reaching impact on all of us for years to come.

 

[JayDub]

JB wages are certainly lower because they were set by management on day one. Will they rise when a contract is negotiated?

Guys, if you don't know, don't guess. JetBlue sends out crew member satisfaction surveys every year. After the first one, they felt maybe the pay was a little low. They announced a pay raise effective 10-1-2001. Then 9-11-01 happened.

They held off on the pay increase to see how things would shake out. In November, they announced they would give it to us after all, with retro pay. The increase amounted to somewhere around 33% for captains.

What kind of pension does JB have?

It would appear (from all of the defections from them to us) better than USAirways'.

Also, maybe some JB guys can confirm or deny, is JB deferring some payments to Airbus? Also, I believe they have not yet seen the full brunt of heavy maintenence costs.

As I stated in an earlier post on another thread, American Airlines tried their darndest to prove this correct, and couldn't. I would imagine it would have been darn useful to them when they took JetBlue to court over the slots in LGB. Instead, AA agreed to a compromise.

As far as MX costs, it depends on what you define as heavy mX costs. Does this include C checks? I know we've had some C checks, but other than that, I don't hang out in MX Ops too much so I am not sure.

The only reason I know most of these answers off the top of my head is because I have put in a little research on these subjects. I am not merely a cheer leader for JetBlue. I have a whole lot riding on this company being what they say they are. So far, I can find no credible evidence to the contrary.

JayDub

 

[SWA/FO]

"Industry leading pay" is only good if the checks are coming in.

FACT - When your furloughed from DAL, AMR, NWA, USA & UAL your not making "Industry Leading pay". Unless Home Depot has stepped it up?

What is wrong with building a strong company while making a great living?

Making 200,000/yr. + stock options (We are not talking UAL stock!!) + profit sharing (is not that bad). While the company grows 8% + a year. Who cares about retirements when your expanding like that!! S*it, I'll be changing my name to SWA/Capt. soon!!